Chick Ludwig Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 Has there been anything posted about the zipper reef on sails with a sleeve luff? How does it work and how are the reefing lines and hardware rigged? Any drawings and/or pictures? Quote
Don Silsbe Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 Me too! I'd really like to understand this option better. My interests are mainly in daysailing. But it would be nice to have the reefing option, in case I decided to take up overnight gunkholing in my later retirement. Quote
Designer Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 It is not Zipper reefing i is simply a zipper luff. If it was not for the sprit we could use a zippered luff like we use on the Sprindrift's. I am not prepared to give up on the sprit or wishbone because they make the sail so much more controllable especially in strong downwind conditions. This means rolling up a sail to reef in smaller boats or sail track and jiffy reef in the larger boats. Quote
Chick Ludwig Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Posted January 9, 2015 How is the snotter rigged when you roll the sail to reef? Quote
Hirilonde Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 I would think nothing about the snotter changes with reefing. The whole sail moves down, new clew and tack points are engaged, the reef lines clean up the mess and done. Quote
Steve W Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 There might be other versions, but I have a zipper luff on my S11N I bought form B & B and it has a regular boom wit a vang. It really makes a nice sail shape and it's surprisingly easy to work with. I can't imagine using it with a sprit, but I had never seen this befoe and it is really clever. Quote
Chick Ludwig Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Posted January 9, 2015 Hirilonde," The whole sail moves down, new clew and tack points are engaged, the reef lines clean up the mess and done." If you roll the sail around the mast you no longer have a way to attach the snotter. The sail doesn't move down or use new clew and tack points. Quote
Designer Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 I left out a sentence. You roll up the sail and park it. The reefing is only using one sail. Quote
Chick Ludwig Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Posted January 9, 2015 Designer, understood. Just want to clarify the reefing situation for Thrillsbe and others. On a boat without the third mast step, what would you do? Someone was telling me about a sleeve luff sail with a very deep pocket that would allow the sail to be lowered enough to reef. Quote
Dnjost Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 while we are discussing reefs and rigs, I am installing the rig with track and slides. Since I will have two reefs per sail, will i ever really be using the alternate mast step position? I now have two lovely mast/mizzen tubes, and am considering not going with the alternate position. Opinions? Does anyone use the third position? Quote
Chick Ludwig Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Posted January 10, 2015 I would not. Of course my boats have had cabins so there wasn't a place for the third mast step. But I probably wouldn't use it even on an open boat. 1 Quote
Peter HK Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Dnjost said while we are discussing reefs and rigs, I am installing the rig with track and slides. Since I will have two reefs per sail, will i ever really be using the alternate mast step position? I now have two lovely mast/mizzen tubes, and am considering not going with the alternate position. Opinions? Does anyone use the third position? There is no point in the third position with proper reefing of main and mizzen. The ability to have a low COE rig will give more drive with less heeling force and you can still adjust for balance and heave to with the mizzen in tight. Too many advantages to consider the third reefing position not even thinking about the difficulty of dropping masts and shifting one on the water in 30 knots! Cheers Peter HK Quote
Peter HK Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Chick Ludwig said Designer, understood. Just want to clarify the reefing situation for Thrillsbe and others. On a boat without the third mast step, what would you do? Someone was telling me about a sleeve luff sail with a very deep pocket that would allow the sail to be lowered enough to reef. I have built a boat with the Wharram style large luff pocket...a gaff rigged schooner...and it certainly works well with the sail cloth collapsing into little folds very well. You can't use it with a sprit boom though because the snotter connection gets in the way....it only works with a standard boom (and is better with a gaff rig). Any sleeve arrangement around the front of the mast can't work well with a snotter attachment. You also can't have full length battens with such a pocket. Overwhelmingly the best arrangement to reef with a sprit boom is with sail track. My 2c worth Cheers Peter HK 1 Quote
Ken_Potts Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 I have used the third mast step on numerous occasions and the boat sailed very well. 1 Quote
Chick Ludwig Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Posted January 10, 2015 Different solutions to different situations. we've had a good discussion here about this subject, and cleared up some misconceptions. My two cents is for the sail track and full batten sails, but others like battenless sails rolled around the mast and the third step. As one of the famous designers and writers of things nautical used to say, "different ships, different long splices". (Do you guys know who said this?) Quote
Don Silsbe Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 What a great exchange! I'm leaning towards the simple method. If I was building a CS15, I'd be prone to leading all the controls aft. Without a side deck on the BRS15, that's not possible (or weird, at very least). Besides, the "spirit" of the BRS is to keep things simple. I'm interested in knowing about 1) how & where the furled sail is parked, and 2) which sail one chooses to furl-- main or mizzen? I'm learning a lot. Thanks, guys. Quote
Dale Niemann Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 I would definitely recommend leaving out the third mast hole. I have one and have never used it except just to see if it worked and it did. Ever since I changed from sleeve to tracks my problems reefing were solved. When loading and unloading I just wrap the sails around the mast and pull them out. real simple. dale Quote
LennieG Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 Dale- Want to make sure I have this straight please. You don't take the sails off after sailing....you wrap them? Thanks Len Quote
ricknriver Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 That was how I stored the sails on my BRS15 that were laced on. Let them dry and rolled them on. Planned to make sleeves/socks for them for protection while trailering. Third mast step allowed use of either main or mizzen to "reef". 3rd step also good to store mizzen when rowing. Just thoughts. R Quote
Dale Niemann Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 Yes, Lennie, I just roll the sails on the masts. That is the way I store them or if I am beach camping. I have built two mast cradles that are big enough to carry both masts with the sails wrapped. The cradle mount into the mast holes. Then the whole thing is covered with a tarp when not sailing as you have seen. The sails are not reefed by wrapping them on the masts like the Sea Pearl for instance. Only for storage. If somebody could come up with a way to reef the sprit rigged sails by rolling on the mast like Sea Pearl it would be wonderful. I love there reefing. But they require a boom and boom vang. We do not need one. I do not have any battens so that is not a problem. If you wanted battens they would have to be vertical and then I don't think you would be able to slab reef the way I do. dale Quote
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