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Steve W

Core Sound 20 Mark III #3 "Skeena"

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I used Interlux Perfection. Medeterainiean White and Platinum Grey. I wish the gray was a little darker. FWIW, the paint isn't for ametuers. Very thin and shows every imperfection. I used Kirby on my S11N and it was so much thicker it shows brush marks but hides flaws. I wound up painting the strakes 3 times and I'm still not happy. Amos said painting was "humbling". I agree.

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So spent some time working on my trailer last week and Friday I got a late start and launched Skeena again at Conesus lake. My daughter Helen joined my again. We launched around 7 and by the time we got in the water the sun was behind the trees. There was still a bit of breeze so we hoisted sail and had a short night sail.

 

We had packed quickly and the cabin was a mess by the time we anchored. I have bought a Rocna anchor and a roller for the bow, but I hadn't got it mounted, so I borrowed my Bruce from the Sea Pearl and we put it down in the dark. The wind forecast was for light winds from the North. Here is a pic right as I anchored.

 

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Helen is a Senior at SUNY Geneseo. She is on track to go to Law School and is a blessing. We drank a couple of glasses or Riesling and solved most of the worlds problems before calling it a night.

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I slept like a baby and I made coffee for us in the morning. We sailed a bit in an increasing breeze. Here's Helen with a report on sleeping aboard:

https://youtu.be/vsTjcq4cUSQ

 

We then we met my wife Suzanne at a Restaurant called the Hook & Spoon and had lunch. After a nice lunch we went sailing. Suzanne was dropping Helen off to college so it was a short sail. I can honestly say Suzanne only tolerated my Sea Pearl due to its tender nature. She really liked the stability of Skeena. I didn't have the water ballast in........

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After I dropped the two of them off my friend Andy met me. The wind had died so we played guitar a bit and then the wind really freshened. We sailed and sang and it was an amazing day. We had dinner at another restaurant and by the time he left it was at least 10 pm. I kept the obat at a dock and had another great sleep.

 

This morning I woke up early and started making a "mods" list that has 22 items on it. The wind shifted 180 and so I had to motor all the way to the launch. I was reminded of my friend Doug who says there is no good reason for a wind indicator as it always points from where you want to go.

 

But it was good to have a few hours to take stock and decide what was next. I also filled the ballast tank and it doesn't leak!

 

I have made the decision that I'm going to sell Wild Cat, my Sea Pearl 21. I've owned her for 12 years and sailed her all over in all kinds of conditions. But this Mark 3 is so luxurious compared to her it's time to let someone else have fun.

 

Graham and Alan.......thanks for designing such a great boat.

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I get insomnia sometimes. The worst thing to do is look at your phone. But last night I did. I'd posted an edited video of my first sail on Skeena with Helen on FB in a group called "Pocket Yachts and trailer sailors". The post got a lot of responses, but the last one was "Why did you decide to use B and B Yacht Design?"  Talk about not sleeping. My mind was racing as to the path that led me to "Skeena". I decided to write it down while fresh in my head.

 

Let's start with my first introduction to B & B. I always watch the Everglades Challenge Spot tracker map during the event. I think a lot of adventure sailors are aware of this race. My wife always says "Watching the Dots again?" It's a goal of mine to enter someday. Obviously the Core Sound series of boats has done really well there. We all know that.

 

Meanwhile, I've had a cat ketch rigged Sea Pearl since 2007 and while I love the boat, it's lack or recover-ability in a knock down makes me uncomfortable in a race like that. I pick my weather window with local sailing trips and in a long race like that you lose that control.  That said, I've never swamped her or even come close and I've sailed her in some tough conditions. But I know being sleep deprived makes you do dumb things. So I rooted on the other Sea Pearls in the race (yes there were some epic capsizes) and the Core Sounds because of the rig. 

 

In 2010 I went to the MASCF in St Michaels , MD. If you haven't gone, you should. There is a gunk-holing event out to Wye Island and the first year I did it in my Sea Pearl. A Core Sound 20 joined us. I believe the builder was named Brett. He was throwing crab pots while sailing and I remember marveling that that was possible, both that he had the room to store them and the stability. I didn't get a close look at his boat thought. At the actual festival I studied other Core Sounds and decided that they looked like too much work.

 

I did catch the boat building bug and ironically picked a Spindrift 11N as my first build. I thought this was a good "started project" to see if boat building was for me. She turned out to be fun to build (the plans were just the right kind of complete, not paint by number, but everything you need) and speedy to sail and then I was back to thinking about a replacement for Wildcat, my SP21.

 

I'd started doing more adventure sailing. I'd joined a bunch of folks that I met at the MASCF and we sailed around the Chesapeake, 1000 Islands in NY, a trip to Maine and I was also doing a lot of solo trips. I got to thinking how nice a cabin would be, mostly so I'd have dry storage and be able to stay out longer.

 

But the boats I looked at mostly had deep drafts (If it draws more than a foot it was rejected) or had complicated rigs that took a long time to rig (30 minutes or more - rejected) or didn't look easy to single-hand (my experience favored rigs with a mizzen) or were heavy (over 1000# rejected. Towing heavy stuff isn't fun, sucks gas and is scary) or was too big to build in my basement or too high fit in my garage. Boats I considered were the Bolger Chebbaco (no data on how well they sail and no support from current plan supplier), Norwalk island Sharpie (I still think she is pretty, but you could only buy an expensive kit), Welsford "Sweet Pea" and a few others. But nothing was just right.

 

And then one day while I was at work Graham posted a 3-D rendering of what he and Alan had been working on. I was immediately smitten. It checked every box. The right rig, shallow draft,  big self bailing cockpit, lots of storage, seaworthy, fast. And while I favor a more traditional look I though she was attractive enough. I especially liked the full width cabin.  The rest is chronicled well in this thread, but I couldn't be happier. Now that I've sailed her a bit I'm even more convinced I picked the right design.

 

I had some personal misfortunes (lost my Dad, father in law, and business partner of 27 years) while building  that slowed things a lot. And there are a few things that were a bit under developed in the kit (hatch, motor mount) but the support has been excellent both here on the forum and from Graham and Alan. I can't imagine how much more difficult and less fun things would have been without this community.

 

I made plenty of mistakes and there are a few things I'd do different if I did it all over again, but I'll link this to the FB question and consider it answered.

 

 

 

 

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I'm writing this sitting on my CS17 - the original - anchored out in a protected bight in Connecticut near Norfolk.  I want to echo a lot of what Steve said.  I was drawn to b&b because of the the Everglades performance.  I seriously considered another small cruiser, but when I read a user report that it didn't do so well upwind, ixnay.  Plus its tabernacle was too tall for regular garages.   So core sound seemed like the one.  My wife and I drove to NC for vacation, met Graham and ordered one on the spot.  The 17 has a lot of strings,  and they're always catching on something,  but when everything is in place, it's the sweetest 17 footer you could hope for.  I had a long reach out today, the wind shifted, and I blasted back.  Now it's time for boat and I to dine.  Like steve, I'm so glad my path led to b&b.imageproxy.php?img=&key=617d0da80c1a1d06imageproxy.php?img=&key=617d0da80c1a1d06

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Steve,

 

I don't come around this forum very often these days, but I still have my CS20.  I remember meeting you at the MASCF event what now must be many years ago.  I opened your thread just to see what was you were up to.

 

I still crab and fish from my CS20, and it is certainly my go to boat for sailing around my river home.  My joy of sail boat. I thought at one point I might sell it, but it has never gone on the market.  

 

I am glad to see you have your Core Sound up and running.  I wish you many wonderful hours on board.

 

Brent

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Brent, sorry I got your name wrong,  the year was 2010 I am pretty sure. I'm going again this year and if the weather is right I'll sail to Wye Island again. It would be great to sail together again. 

 

Steve

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I've been thinking a lot about everyone in NC and along the southeastern coast. I've been through my share of ice storms and big northern snow storms and even the famous Blizzard of '77 while growing up in Buffalo, NY, but I can't imagine that kind of uncertainty and damage that a hurricane brings. Please stay safe.

 

Meanwhile, my punch list is getting shorter. I admit I sailed with my forward hatch held down by gravity. I stole Graham's clever idea and now she closes nice with a gasket. I used some cherry I had around for the gussets and an old maple 1 1/4" closet rod for the knobs and threaded receiver . I have a bit of sanding but I'm happy with the process. I used a Fostner bit to drill a hole hole big enough to nest the bolt head (knob piece) and the nut (part attached to hatch). I glued in the bolt and the nut with thickened epoxy. They weren't perfectly true to the center so I chucked the knobs in my drill press and used a rasp to get them nice and true and followed with sandpaper. A poor substitute for a lathe, but it worked well. I used a fostner bit to remove the paint off the inside of the hatch to glue in the receiver. Tonight I'll remove, sand and varnish.

 

I have a night time X-country race, but I may get sailing tomorrow or Sunday. 

 

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All in all it was a fun little project. My goal was to make sure the whole mess didn't extend below the hatch frame. My next step is to make a screen to Velcro to keep the critters out.

 

 

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I spent another great day sailing up Conesus lake yesterday. The wind was light, but I wanted to get a chance to test the long shaft Suzuki 2.5 I added. I had bought a short shaft and while the cav plate was below the hull and it performed well, if I went forward the whole transom lifts a bit and the prop loses it's bite. I had a friend who is buying the SS motor and I got a new long shaft model. What a difference. It's quieter and even going forward to the anchor locker the prop stayed in the water. I crashed through some big powerboat wakes without a problem. I wish I had thought about that before I ordered the motor but the next builder will know. 

 

My question of the day is what to do with the reefing lines. I have gotten my act down and I have the boat rigged in a short time. I'd say already less than 15 minutes. But the reefing lines need to be threaded and run to the cleats. My question is do you always rig them and if so where do they stay when the boats on the trailer. Anyone have a system worked out?

 

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On the main mast, I have the forward  reefing lines start from the deck, "up" thru a reefing hook, back down thru a block on the deck, then thru fairleads back to cockpit.  As I put the sail on the mast, I slip the hooks into the cringles, and with plenty of slack they get hoisted into position.   When I take the sail off, the reefing lines stay on the boat, so all I have to do next time is slip the hooks into the cringles.

I use the mizzen down haul to reef the front of the mizzen, since every thing is right there and it's easy to move the down haul hook to the reefing cringle.

As to the reefing lines in the sprit ends, I leave the sprits attached to the sails and sort of flake them in the boat for transport.  So those reefing lines stay threaded.

With this setup, I can jiffy reef everything from the cockpit, in maybe a minute or two.

Hope that helps, or at least gives some ideas.

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I think the reefing lines should be deployed for any significant sailing,  especially if overnight.   For the sails' foot I keep the sails bent to their sprits with the reefing lines reeved -- then bag the sail, sprit, and reefing lines all together.  Separate bags for mizzen and main.  Both transported on the port-side cockpit seat.

For the main reefing downhauls I leave them reeved through the pulleys attached to the hooks that will be hooked thru their luff cringules (sp?) when bending the m'sail.  For transport I let them hang over Blk#1 (into the anchor well -- their weight keeps them in the well) with their lines passed aft thru bulls-eyes to a cleat at the aft edge of the cabin roof.

The downhauls can be trimmed from the cockpit.   The reefing lines for the foot can also be trimmed from the cockpit, but to do so I had to move their cleats near the aft end of the sprit.

 

I'm amazed at your setup time.  It takes me about 1.5 hours for Chessie!   Maybe it's my senior status?

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Pete,

I'm still pretty agile, but I am reminded that once when I was buying a canoe and asked how much it weighed. Salesperson said "62 pounds, but it gets 10 pounds heavier every 10 years". I didn't get the joke back then but I get it now.  I hope I'm in as good shape as you when I get your age.

 

I have one line over the stern and the bow strap to undo. I put on my mast fly and push up the main mast. I walk forward holding onto it to steady myself. I step down into the cockpit locker (one foot) and put on the wing nut thingy. I did grind a sort of dome on the end of the bolt to make it self aligning.

 

As I walk back to the stern I pull up the mizzen mast on it's tabernacle. Jay was singing from the Mizzen Tabernacle Choir about it's advantages. He was right. It's pretty great. I used to muscle up the masts on my Sea Pearl and it was OK, but this setup is super easy. I rigged a short line with a couple of snap hooks. One fits on the mizzen snotter eye strap and the other to the main sprit, holding the sprit horizontal. I have a mizzen staysail halyard that I use for the mizzen sprit. I'm guessing by now I'm less than 5 minutes in. I pull the sails out of the cabin (no bags yet!). I marked a Z on the tack of the mizzen to identify it, so next  I clip the clew to the sprit and start threading the sail on. Those plastic mast gates are awesome. I tie in the halyard. Repeat for the main and launch.

 

I leave my motor on the boat. I opted to support the boat by the two bunk boards moved into match the longitudinal bulkheads and support the centerboard. I have forgotten to pull the centerboard up on launch so I wrote "centerboard" on my wind indicator. I'll probably forget both someday. Anyway, I'm still trying to improve the process.

 

Paul, 

 

that seems clear. I opted for the simplicity of having just one tack hook for the main and mizzen that I move higher to reef.  So no problem there.

 

My challenge is that the reefing lines for the aft part of the sprits are tied to the sprit, go up through an alternate clew grommet, back to a small reefing block and forward to a jam cleat. It's 4 lines that need to be removed and stowed. My sprits don't fit below in the cabin so I can't leave the sails on. I've decided to stow the sprits on top of the masts during travel, but in order to remove the sails to stow in the Cabin, I have to remove the four reefing lines. I'm looking for a way to speed that process up and also not have so much clutter on the deck.

 

I did have an "ah-ha!" moment when I realized how nice a sail shape you can get with a reefed sail!

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Hi Steve, I hope you’re thinking of traveling down to the Messabout this year. I would look forward talking about your boat build and seek advice on some building steps. If you need a place to spend the night enroute to the Messabout, I welcome you to stay with us in Williamsburg, VA. We’re about a 4 hour drive from New Bern/Vandemere.

 

Todd Stein

toddmorganstein@gmail.com

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Steve the boat looks great, and I see it sails beautifully  too!

 

We have removed our gps on Southern Express,  the mast head wind indicator seems to be much more accurate, always points to the destination! 

 

My reefing “system” is very similar to what Paul said...  my criteria was to be able to reef the boat standing in front of the mizzen tabernacle.  The main has 3 downhauls at the mast then ran to the port cabin top.  The main halyard has one red thread woven through it for one reef, so I release the main to one thread at the cleat on the cabin top then pull the reefing line, followed by the  first reefing line (green tracer) on the sprit,  the second reef is the same (except for 2 red threads woven through the halyard)  and a red reefing line on the leech. I have only reefed to the second reef on the main once.  All my reefing lines have “S” hooks and stay attached to the sprit to be quickly hooked to the kringles on the clew.  The “S” hooks hook to the luff kringle as the sail is fed into the track.   Only one downhaul on the mizzen clew, easy to move it up as you reef, still the same 2 lines with “S” hooks for the mizzen leach . I made little bags for the reefing line to be stored in when we trailer, other wise after a brief trailer ride the reefing lines become macrame!  Hope that gives you an idea of our “ sail reduction system “ 

 

I reef the main pretty soon, the boat (and Carol) likes the boat to stand up. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Todd Stein said:

Hi Steve, I hope you’re thinking of traveling down to the Messabout this year. I would look forward talking about your boat build and seek advice on some building steps. If you need a place to spend the night enroute to the Messabout, I welcome you to stay with us in Williamsburg, VA. We’re about a 4 hour drive from New Bern/Vandemere.

 

Todd Stein

toddmorganstein@gmail.com

Todd, as the time gets closer I will tighten up my plans. I'm heading to St Michaels for the MASCF for a whole week. Skeena's first big adventure. Sailing around the Choptank river until Wednesday. If the conditions are right I'll sail around to St Michaels but if not I'll haul and tow. I'm doing the Wye Island trip. A college friend is joining me. If you haven't been to the MASCF you should find time. 

 

I'll come home for two weeks and then I'll be back on the road to Vandemere! I may leave the boat somewhere south if I can. We'll see. But when I'm at the messabout I'll probably need crew. I owe Pete a sail as he was gracious to let me helm "Chessie" a lot last year. But he'll probably need crew too! That will be the end of my sailing season probably. It snows not long after that!

 

 

 

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I've tried a bunch of different approaches to reefing the main (specifically the leech reef lines) - not working yet for me! I'm really curious to hear everyone's experience and approach. Originally I ran these lines back to the cockpit using the ramp and ball technique on the drawings at the time. Set up time was too onerous so I took off the ramps and re-configured, initially with cleats at the clew end - thinking that was way clever of me - I'd just tighten up the reef at the end of the main sprit while I stood in the cockpit in front of the mizzen, heaved-to. Not. In any kind of blow the boat sails away on you and holding on to the end of the sprit is a real fool's errand. I'm moving the main, clew, reef cleats to the forward end of the sprit unless I hear a better idea. Your approach sounds appealing, Paul, but I can't imagine in my head how I'd keep fully battened sails attached to the sprits when raising and lowering the masts. Where are your clew reef cleats for the main? Are you using the ramp and ball rig?

 

I've been using small blocks and a soft shackle to secure the clew reefs to the cringles on the mizzen, but they're a pain. I like your idea, Jay, of just using hooks, so I'm going to switch to those. Do you, then, Jay, cleat the main clew reefs on cleats at the forward end of the sprit? This would be a set up that mirrors the mizzen. If so, then a trip to the foredeck is required, and it's kind of a reach to get to them.

 

Here's another question - I re-do my approach every time I have to reef in earnest. Do you release the snotter all the way so the fwd end is down near the deck before cinching up the clew reef line? I'm thinking this makes the most sense, since otherwise I'm standing on the thwart and reaching up just to get to the cleats, with similar antics or worse for the main.

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"In any kind of blow the boat sails away on you and holding on to the end of the sprit is a real fool's errand. "

 

I haven't sailed Skeena in a situation that required reefing yet. Close, but not quite. I was able to flatten the sail to de-power. But I wonder if the problem you are having here is because your heave to technique might need adjustment. I have been sailing a cat-ketch Sea Pearl for 12 years. One of it's novelties is that you can sheet in the mizzen and it will walk straight backwards while the main flogs itself right on the centerline. It's while doing this you can walk forward to reef the main.  But in order to do this you need to pull up the lee-boads and the rudder. Without doing that, if the boat backs up and gets even a little cross ways, you better be ready to un-cleat the mizzen. I believe there has been capsizes caused by not following this protocol.

 

Last fall at the messabout I had the privilege of sailing Pete's boat "Chessie" and I briefly tested the technique and it sure seemed like the same behavior, only easier. A SP is very tender while the CS seemed so docile in comparison. I cam home excited. I'm anxious to get Skeena out in more wind to test, but I'll let you know.

 

My plan all along was to rig the boat like the simpler plan with cleats on the sprit. Put her in "Cat-Ketch Irons" as described above (C-board and rudder up, mizzen sheeted hard) and then tend to the main. It will require me to poke my head out of the fore-hatch or go forward over the cabin roof to move the down-haul hook. Hopefully we'll get some good wind. We've either had too much or none for much of my sails.

 

 

 

 

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A picture is worth a thousand words, particularly on this topic,  I will roll my boat out tomorrow and raise the masts and snap some photos.  I never go forward to reef,  by the time it occurs to me to reef, the foredeck or forward hatch isn’t where my plump butt needs to be!  Gravity likes me enough that if solo,  my weight that far forward really upsets the stability.  This is the 27th version of my reefing system and it seems to work the best of the previous 26 attempts.  

 

If I sheet the mizzen down tight on centerline, board full down,  it just kinda gives up and stays bow on the wind.  The mizzen is easy to reef,  standing forward of the mizzen tabernacle.

 

Photos tomorrow if it would help anyone.

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What jk said.  Keep board and rudder down, lock tiller.  Sheet mizzen tight.  You'll be moving backwards, but sprits will be luffing on the centerline and cleats for reefing lines on sprits will be easily accessible without filling the sails.  Dont forget to ease the snotter when easing the halyard and tightening the reef lines, then retighten the snotter once the reef lines are set.

 

All my mainmast lines--halyard, downhaul, both reef lines and snotter--come back to the cockpit so I can reef from the cockpit while lying into the wind under the sheeted mizzen.  Reefing the main is a matter of 30 seconds or less. That includes grabbing the clew reef line and yanking it forward in its clam cleat on the sprit.  Reefing the mizzen is so quick that grabbing the sprit to tighten the clew reef line and cleat it is not an issue.

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Soooo interesting. Thanks everyone. I'm also glad to hear everyone's slight variations on heaving-to. I love heaving-to in a blow because I'm often discovering at the same time that I need to settle things down a bit on the boat and take a breath, and I'm always surprised how stable it is. I release the main, sheet the mizzen down tight, and release the tiller, CB stays down. If it's blowing and there are heavy chop or waves, the boat tends to sail a little perhaps 10-20 degrees off the wind because the waves seem to push the bow off the wind - with the main still flogging.  When I've tried locking the tiller in the past, the boat seemed to go all over the place, but perhaps it's time I tried that one more time. I've never tried raising the CB and rudder, but I'll give that a go next time as well. Sounds like everyone's main reef cleats are at the aft end of their sprits. Jay - I'd love to see a photo of your setup (I Totally get that you're on your 27th version, I'm just trying to catch up to you!). Thanks!!

 

Also - Paul, I'd love to see a photo of your setup if you have one and it's any different from Jay's. 'Reefing the mizzen is so quick'... are you releasing the snotter a lot so it's down at nearly deck level? So far, I've found that I have to release the mizzen sheet in order to cinch up the clew reef line, but maybe I'm just not letting out enough snotter line.

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