Miyot Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Plastic is like poor mans peel ply. But kind of acts similar. Every wrinkle in the plastic fills up with epoxy and is a mirror image of itself. The bubbles can usually be worked out if enough resin is available to fill them. You could run the bubble out with a plastic spreader, but they often return. A bubble usually forms along the edges. Your ok there. Just sand them smooth and feather the edges of the tape. An orbital sander works well here with about 80 grit. The white ish spots you have may be resin starved. Always check as you go and add a little more resin to the white spots until transparent. It is to late now to add more resin. It must be done before curing. Peel ply works better as you can roll out the air with a ribbed metal or plastic roller. Your seam looks ok. Nothing some sanding wont fix. Just make sure the cloth is wet out properly next time. After wetting out the glass, give it a roll with the ribbed roller to release small air bubbles. I posted this before I saw Howards post, so what he said to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tgabe Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Howard, Thanks for the reponse. So if I do it your way, I don't clamp the joint between two boards while it dries, correct? When you lay down the tape on top of the epoxy, do you add more epoxy? Do you put plastic over it and roll it out? I need to go to epoxy school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Plastic sheet under the joint to keep what seeps out below from sticking to anything. But on top, no need for plastic if you do one joint at a time. You will be doing this out in the open where you can see everything and gravity is working for you. This then becomes the basic tape job.......the same as you will do for taping joints over fillets. Just enough epoxy to wet out the tape until it goes clear.......no white spots. Once it does that, you can squeegee off or brush out the surplus epoxy. You don't want the tape to be dry and starved, but not floating either. The surface should be clear, but still able to see the weave the the glass tape. That will leave you a clean surface and if you snip the edges off, about as flat and level a joint as you can get using a butt joint. Once you turn the panel over, you will no longer need the finish nails to hold the panels in place. You may need to slightly sand the bottom joint flush if epoxy dripped through and puddled on the plastic sheet below. That goes pretty fast with a random orbital sander. Just sand it down flush, lay down the epoxy and then the tape. Again, do make sure the first side is cured enough to survive the rollover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tgabe Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I will try it. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 This brings up a question. When gluing finger joints between the front and back sections of of the hull of a CS-17 kit, do you just use thickened epoxy on the joints, or glass tape on one or both sides, too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennieG Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Chick- the CS 17 kit. doesn't have finger joints between front and back panels....those are scarfed joints. There are finger joints near bow between top and bottom panels, and the plans call for FRP tape. Both sides That is a high stress area going 3D. So, no apples to apples comparison but I believe you would need tape like you would for a butt joint in that area because the surface area is relatively small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 To avoid the wrinkles caused with plastic sheeting, use packaging tape on a scrap of plywood, under the joint or applied directly to the bench or table your doing the bond on. It doesn't wrinkle and is easy to remove. I also have scrap pieces of plywood (usually 1/4" off cuts) that have plastic sheeting spray mounted or firmly taped to it. This also prevents wrinkles. All joints, regardless of type will have this basic procedure: any raw wood is wetted out with unthickened epoxy - any previously coated (cured) surfaces are toothed (sanded) with 80 - 100 grit, after having amine blush washed off - the joint area is coated with a slightly to heavily thickened mixture (depending on application) so it will be gap filling and doesn't run out of the joint - next the joint is brought into alignment (screws, wedges, jig, whatever) and weighted down, just enough so you have good goo contact and some ooze out all around. At this point you can just wait, but most of us will remove the excess ooze out, to save work later. If the joint is on the work bench, the mix only needs to be about the consistency of ketchup. If the joint is vertical or overhead, then it needs to be thick enough (peanut butter) so it doesn't run out of the joint from gravity. Also, if you need a fair bit of clamping pressure to align things (not uncommon), place a length of very fine cotton string or 10 pound fishing line (monofiliment) around the perimeter of the joint, say a 1/4" inside the edge, so it's not seen. This will hold the joint open, so you don't starve it with too much clamping pressure. I have a bale of cotton kite string I use for this, which works well and the cotton swells up as the goo saturates it, further helping the seal and bond. Monofiliment can be left in place or removed after the cure. If you want to remove it, leave a tail hanging out and just pull it out when the goo is good and cured. I usually don't bother, just leaving it in place. Of course, a cotton (or polyester) string isn't coming out, unless you take a chain saw to the joint afterward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Lennie, I guess it was a bad guess on the CS-17 kit. Actually, I'm joining the pieces on the hull panels that Graham cut for me for my Sport Boat (See thread on it.) I assumed that since it has finger joints, that the other boats did too. This boat is a "one off" and has no plans, and the only parts in the kit are the hull panels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennieG Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Chick- i can see why you thought that- good question. ( I love questions that I have a some chance of answering right, and when I get to them first ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I checked with Alan Stewart. He said that normally they don't glass the finger joints with 6 and 9mm panels, but with this boat being only 4mm ply, he thinks that I should. Now I think I'd better let you guys get back to helping TGabe. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tgabe Posted June 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I joined two side panels this morning using everyone's suggestions. I will let you know how it turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Gabe: If you have not glanced over the "Epoxy Tricks" thread, you might want to. Rather than cluttering up your thread with general stuff, I have swerved that thread into the topic of butt blocks, scarfs, etc. Had meant to do that all along and it got lost in the shuffle. I suspect that topic will flare up and continue for a while. Good luck with today's effort. Let us know how it turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tgabe Posted July 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 The CS 17 plans have two options for the aft configuration. It can be built with an aft deck or left open. Is there any advantage to one over the other, or is it just personal preference. Obviously, the open cockpit would have more room, but are there other things to consider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennieG Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 I think it is a personal preference issue. I personally like the finished look and storage improvement with the act deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter HK Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 If you're going to have a motor the open plan is a better choice. Cheers Peter HK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Niemann Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 I agree totally with Peter. My 'Lively' has the open aft cockpit and I have never been sorry. I use the motor infrequently but the convenience and access to it is just so much better with the open aft cockpit. dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Instead of an aft deck, I made the boxes all the way back to the transom and a removable seat bridging between them. You have storage under, with seating above, yet it can be taken out when you need to, like fiddling with the rudder or an outboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Niemann Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Par's idea sounds like a good one to me. I only have one aft hatch on the starboard side and it is not convenient to shove stuff over to the port side. His way would require access on both sides but seems much more flexible at the loss of some flotation. dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennieG Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Wish I spoke to you guys about this a year ago, or maybe I did and didn't understand then as much as I do now live and learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Flex would be a problem my way, but I also made the transom curved, which employed a big ass (technical term) horizontal brace, across the transom about mid way up (just below seat height, so it could act as the aft support for the removable seat. If I was to do it again on a straight transom, I'd still use the brace, if only to add athwart stiffness, replacing the lose of the bulkhead. Horizontal brace. It's dirty after a sail and I've yet to finish up the paint in this photo, as I've just installed twin transom drains, so water can't pool on either side of the keel batten. With seat in place, it seat lands on two lengths of aluminum angle stock, which are screwed to the seat box risers, so it (the removable seat) is resting on the brace and the angle stock on each side. A curved (laminated) beam on the front of the seat stiffens this area. There's no lose of floatation chamber dimensions, in fact there's more, because the seats are wider aft than on the plans, because I curved the seat faces (risers) to mimic the sheer and offer more butt room (another technical term). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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