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CS17 #370 Peggy-O


LennieG

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I can relate to working in a hot shop. It's been hot and humid in nc the last few weeks and dripping sweat in epoxy isn't the best.

As for fairing and painting I'm about to start this process on the CS 15 I'm building. I'm curious how you decided to use latex since I think it's the last paint I would choose because my experience is that mildew creeps into it and in a few years it looks a little used and repainting is soooo much work. In the cockpit I plan to roll and tip a 2 part polyurethane. DevoE 379 "devthane" it was 75 bucks for a gallon at my local high performance coatings store. Glidden or other/ ask around. If you can wear a respirator and use a few fans you'll be miles ahead of latex.

As for fairing the cockpit I have come to the conclusion as graham did long ago that a perfectly fair cockpit is not worth the immense ammount of time

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It takes to get there. Smoothing out the fiberglass edges and filling in all pinholes and any sharp spots is important but this makes the cockpit smooth not fair. The outside of the hull is worth the time but seeing the structural glass tape at the cockpit joints is not offensive to the eye and if nonskid will be applied then perfectly fair is even less important.

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However, if you don't want to use stinky and potentially brain cell reducing paints I totally understand. My dad and I used system 3 lpu on our cs 20 because of this but it has not held up well in the long term (5 or more years) as compared to a 2 part poly coated boat and it has always lived in a garage when not in use. We will be repainting her soon and I know what to use this time.

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Thanks Paul and Alan-

I don't want to drag the group into another long paint discussion as I did with the hull, but during that discussion it seemed several folks said that latex worked well for them on the interior as it was easy to apply, easy to touch up and lasted a long time. Your input seems different than many expressed and it is not that I am dismissing any of what you say. I have this aversion to potentially dangerous marine paints due to already having chronic severe asthma, and not enough brain cells to begin with....

That being said, I wish I had bit the bullet and used the good paint on the hull versus the 20 times I sanded it and 7 coats of enamel.

At end of day I didn't save myself anything.

All are good points and appreciated. 

Thanks

 

me:

 

 

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As you've learned Grasshopper, painting is an art form, under appreciated by most, until they try, much like the new appreciation you now have after your hull. Once you develop the skills of fairing and smoothing, without making a career out of it, you'll want to use the "good stuff", if only to show off hard won skills. A buddy of mine "small boat best in show" at the WoodenBoat event in Mystic. He's a car painter/body man by trade, so knows how to get panels smooth and fair. His little strip planked gaffer is literally perfect, with a well polished solvent LPU gleam.

 

On the other hand, the acrylics (latex) can do a fine, much less costly job of it, so pick your poison, based on your skill sets and budget.

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Lennie:

 

To clarify, as I recall, the reference to using latex/acrylic paints was to the interior of cabin boats which are protected from sun, rain, etc. The interior of an open boat, like a CS, is not much different from the exterior. Both will be fully exposed to the environment.

 

By the same token, I've heard that interior varnish work inside an enclosed and protected cabin may well last the life of the boat. Exterior varnish should be touched up / renewed every year, if not more often depending on exposure.

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Ok ! Thanks for bringing me along. It is amazing how much I don't know and am forever indebted to you guys. Not sure until maybe now I actually " got" the difference between interior and cabin, and smoothing and fairing. These things have tended to have blurred lines for me. I love the process and the learning . I will make adjustments and get the cabin done right. It was never about money choices....not that that doesn't matter, but just about matching skill sets with product and health.

i am going to be away for two weeks and will miss this process.

as far as the Grasshopper reference, not sure I get it but certain that I deserve it Paul! :) :)

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It has been a long time since grasshopper. I loved that show. Thanks chick for the video.

 

Lenny, I am sure I have mentioned this before but just want to mention it again. 

 

I used System III Water based two part paint on cockpit, topsides and bottom.  I rolled and tipped with foam brush and it came out very well.  That was back in 2007.  'Lively' has basically had no maintenance to date and you saw her.  She has been kept outside covered with a tarp. Her paint is still in excellent shape.  However, the varnish is in sad shape.  With the medical condition you mentioned, I would not use anything except waterbased paints if I were you. I would also recommend you use two part paints.

 

my 2 cents worth.

dale

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I don't think there is a real need to separate between interior and exterior paints on a small boat. I use exterior on everything, if only because it's better at holding back moisture than interior versions. It's only the lowest priced paints that have this separating designation I think and I'll suspect the interior versions are not much more than diluted exterior paints anyway.

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Here are a few pictures from last months progress:

- masts assembled and primed.

- oar storage done

- seat hatches in

- fore mast step in

- aft mast step put together -

The last picture is me from a beach party Friday night. I had decided to get down to one drink per night.

 

Have a good couple weeks!

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Paul-

 

Good point about using the same paint on interior and exterior. The two reasons I am not are:

1) there were things I didn't like about the Interlux Premium Yacht Enamel on the exterior like the fact that I needed to do seven coats to get it right, and it does not seem to be that hard, as you guys already knew.

2) this boat for me is kind of a learning laboratory. I care about this specific boat but I want to learn as much as I can in process, so experiencing different paints has benefit for me. That is why I tried graphite powder on CB, 12 oz Biax instead of support stringers etc....just to try as many things as possible to build my knowledge. 

Thanks

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While on a family trip I am plotting next steps on boat for when I get back next week. I did some outboard motor shopping today and pretty sure I will go with the Honda 2.3 HP. I am a novice sailer and feel more secure having a motor, plus there are a lot of shallow areas where I live until you get about two miles away and the channels are narrow so I may not always be under sail. Anyway I want to make some engine choices as well as bracket choices so I can get the reinforcements in and finish the cockpit. I have researched the forum for bracket ideas but did not see much for aft deck models on CS17 of which I somewhat regrettably chose.

From  what I've gathered the Garelick brackets seem to be a good choice. My only concern is they seem to put the engine another foot away from transom which adds to the "reach" challenge.

Any thoughts or ideas on bracket choices, set up or mounting decisions?

thanks

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I'd build in a "mini motor-well" like you see on decked outboard runabouts. Be sure to leave room for the motor to tilt. Also check for clearance for the motor and rudder to turn when the motor is down and under power. It's a balance between having the motor as close to the center line as you can, and as far out as necessary for clearance. Don't guess---mount your motor and mock-up the box with scrap wood and/or cardboard. Do it with the rudder and tiller in place. Also be sure that the gravitation plate will be a couple of inches below the center line. You may have to notch the transom to do this..

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I include an engine well in most of my sail designs, if it's appropriate. It's not a hard thing, though making them big enough is important. They have to tilt up, but they also have to swing to steer. Some like to leave them fixed, but this forces you to use the rudder, which is less than desirable given the huge maneuverability difference over a vectored thrust approach. With some clever engineering, the rudderhead can be attached to the engine's tiller arm and you can use the boat's tiller to steer the prop and rudder at the same time. This usually just amounts to a bar stock linkage, that can be removed when the engine is up.

 

I also saw a cute "L" bracket on an outboard once. The engine was mounted to the short leg, several inches aft of the transom, much like a regular transom bracket. The long leg of the "L" was hinged to the aft deck, about 16" inboard of the engine and a folding arm could be raised and produced leverage against the bracket/engine assembly, so it could be raised when seated in the cockpit. Of course the draw back (there's always something) was it swung the engine higher then just tilting it up normally would, but you didn't have to climb over the aft deck to get at it either, so a modest trade off.

 

Engines under 5 HP should have a transom at least 1" thick. It's depth (distance from transom to front of the well bulkhead) should be 12", the bottom of the well should be about 5" below the transom cutout, the transom cutout should be 15" above the LWL (short shaft) or 20" if a long shaft, give or take a 1/2" depending on make and model engine. You'll want a generous slope to the well bottom, say at least 10 degrees and of course a drain hole(s) to let out boarding water. The width of the well needs to accommodate the engine's swing, so 18" would be a minimum on a little engine, but check this before committing to a size.

 

Personally, I like FNR engines, because if you need it in a hurry, stretching back and giving the engine a spin may take way to long, before you bash something. I haven't seen any FNR engines under 4 HP in a long time, but maybe they still make one.

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I once owned a sailboat that had a small well situated on the port side of the transom deck.  it worked quite well as it had the motor in reach, but not so high as to be fouling sheets and other lines.  A longshaft motor moved it very effectively.  I was considering a similar installation on the CS17.  

198.w.jpg

This is a Cape Cod Mercury.  Cape cod Shipbuilding.

 

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Hi Lennie,

I was looking to buy the Honda 2.3 but was told by people in the industry to go with a water cooled engine instead of an air cooled engine. They said that it is fine over short distances, but will probably over heat if using for some time. So I went for the Suzuki 2.5 instead. You have to make up your mind which will better suit your needs. The Honda has a plastic prop compared to the others which I think mainly have alloy props and there are many other things to consider as well.

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Lennie,

As you know, I have had the Honda 2HP Air cooled 4 cycle since launch in 2007.  I have had a few carb problems but never any over heating.  I would recommend the Honda.  The only real problem is that it is very noisy and vibrates.  On the other hand it gives great incentive to turn it off and get to sailing.  The quiet when turning it off is wonderful.

dale

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