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mess about brackets


garrett6575
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I have the strongback ready, brackets ready and frames cut out.  I have a question on the placement of the first bracket.  On the bracket drawing is shows 1' 0".  However, the first frame shows 10" and the Notes show the 10" frame mounted to the strongback which I assume means it should be mounted to the first bracket as the rest of the frames which are to be mounted to the strongback align with a bracket.  Can you let me know if the first bracket is at 10" or 1'?

 

Also, just as a sanity check, I assume the  frames mentioned for the strongback mount directly onto the bracket and that I should place the bracket so the measurement will be in the center of the frame?  For example I have a frame at 13' 3" so the edge of the bracket should be at 13' 2 3/4" so the center of the frame is at the correct location?  

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Garrett, I lined my frames on the measurement line.  Just be sure you put each on the same side of the line as the others and that you fasten the frame all on the same sides of the brackets.  If that is not correct,  my Curlew is built wrong, but it floats anyway.

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Paul is right. If all the frames are on the same size they will be lined up properly. I am pretty sure that is covered in the manual. 

 

I need to double check the 10" vs 1'-0" but that sounds like a mistake. Bracket and frame must be in the same  place, so one is wrong and I suspect the bracket is marked wrong.  It would be easy to type 10" when intending to type 1' 0". It will try to check that this afternoon.

 

PS  Had a few minutes and checked and the bracket should be 10". Changed that on the plans.

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Jeff,

I seem to have lost the notes that came with the blueprints.  I assume they were accidentally tossed out with the scraps from the frame cutouts.  Any chance you could email the instructions that were on there?  I know that you had the recommended stringer lengths on there.   garrett6575@gmail.com.  I'll keep looking, but the seem to be gone.

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  • 3 months later...

Jeff,

I am having the same Messabout problem as described in this thread, but I am not following your update here. I have a bracket and frame both listed as 10". I assume that if I put the frame at  approx 9" (outside of bracket). Its OK??? As well, this thread says all frames should be put on the same side of the brackets. Not sure that is possible. At the bow 13'3" I have the same duplication of frame and bracket location. In this case I need to put the frame at 13'4" - the other side of the bracket so that the entire bow and stern assemblies hangs to the outside of their respective frames. As well, the other two brackets to which frames are attached are 1" different in location than the frames, unlike the two noted above. That makes sense to me, unlike the 10" and 13'3" frames.

 

And rather than start yet another thread, I will ask my other questions here. The stern piece has this big nice hole to lighten the piece. Is it OK to add some smaller holes to lighten it some more? And guidelines on how much wood to leave between hole and edge of frame? Ditto, the bow piece. Your plans have a solid piece - OK to put a hole in that to help lighten it?

 

The stern and bow assemblies: are they only lashed to the keel stringer or are they glued as well? (I thought I saw a glueing instruction somewhere, but cant find that now). In which case, that needs to be one of the first steps as part of laying the keel stringer, but before the frames are screwed to the brackets?

 

Figures 98 and 101 in the instruction manual suggest that you only use two frames to level the gunwale stringers - and those are inner frames. Is that true for just that boat, or should I do the same with the Messabout? As well, should only those two frames be bolted to the brackets or should all four frames be bolted to brackets?

 

No doubt more questions to follow...

 

thanks

 

M

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I found it was easiest to mount a stick on the strong back at the  end and use it as the 0.0 point.  I measured all of frames & brackets off of that, going from the front of that to each bracket and frame.  With that in place it is easy to test out the bow assembly on the first frame as the bow should touch the 0.0 post.  On the other end, the stern end should be at 15'. If there was a difference between the frame and bracket measurement on any others, I went by the frame distance.

 

I have no answer regarding removing more weight by drilling more holes; however, I wouldn't think the extremely small weight savings would be worth the risk as the boat is extremely light as it is.

 

I did not glue my stringers to the stern or bow assemblies, I only lashed them.  I did glue in a few corner blocks on the bottom of the stern assembly as I was concerned the bottom could have some flex in it,

 

I only bolted the two suggested frames to the brackets and leveled off of them.  I will tell you that I was using the boat yesterday and was didn't like the fact that I could seen the two screw holes in the frame where it was bolted.  I wouldn't trust just clamping them, but I would suggest filling the holes.

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I can't speak for Jeff, but since he is a logical person, and generally keeps things simple, I would expect that the measurement associated with a frame is the centerline of that frame, not the bracket. I would expect that the bracket would be labeled with the same measurement as the frame. That way, it's up to the builder to position the bracket on either side, and offset it the proper amount. Keep in mind that Jeff doesn't know how thick your bracket is, or how wide the piece at the bottom of the bracket is. 

 

That said, I am building a Mess About from plans and find that some of the bracket measurements fit the above scheme of things, and some don't.

 

One of the bracket full size drawings are labeled FRAME 13' 3" and another is labeled FRAME 10". These match the labels on the full size frame drawings. All is good!

 

However, one of the bracket full size drawings is labeled FRAME 5' 7" and another is labeled FRAME 10' 4", whereas the frame drawings and all other references to the frames are 5' 6" and 10' 3". I simply took this to be a mistake.

 

Jeff, if I'm wrong about the measurements, I'd like to know.

 

Gary in Wake Forest

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  • 2 weeks later...

Jeff,

on the stern assembly for the messabout there is an approximately 4" long notch to take the keel stringer that comes out of the gap in the 10" frame and to be lashed. It is clearly shown in the assembly manual and pictures confirm my understanding. Now at the bow (13'3" frame) I would assume the same general attachment procedure. However, as I see the plan there is no notch to take the keel stringer and I dont see how I am to attach. Should there be a notch in the vertical piece, just like at the stern?

 

thanks

 

M

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Any joint where either of the 2 components can move and the other won't in spite of the connection holds together best with a flexible adhesion method.  This is why lashing is so much better than any other way of joining stringers to frames.  The strength of a lashing comes from the fact that it can give and thus dissipate the forces on the joint.  A glue joint on a scarf works because the whole stringer can flex to dissipate the forces on it.

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Jeff,

Thanks for clarifying the notch :) While you are "messing about" with the plans, could you also clarify the 10" frame vs bracket and the 13'3" frame vs bracket duplicate numbers as mentioned by me and others earlier in this thread?

 

glueing: the bow and stern pieces are glued together as well...

 

Next question: The spacing between frames ranges averages out at around 18" (some as low as 14" others around 18"). However, there is one large gap of 29" between the 7'10" and 10'3" frames. My eyeball wants to put another frame somewhere around 9'1". I would have guessed that in the seating area more frames are good??? Or should the frames be repositioned at different locations?

 

thanks all for your help. No doubt more questions are brewing in my basement...

 

M

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