ricknriver Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Hi, I miss the quick sail convenience of my BRS15 and thinking the Birder 2 for both a quick sailer, and the low cost light (<50#) tandem canoe I've been looking for. Anyone set up a Birder 2 for sailing with lee board(s), rudder, and simple kayak/lug sail? Any thoughts on practicality/potential performance? Thanks, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 I/ve wondered the same thing----hey, Graham.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cprinos Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 I bet that would work out ok. I built a CLC Mill Creek 16.5 and the plans have sheets for a small lug & leeboard. I've not sailed mine, but reports I've read sounds like it works reasonably well. Some have gone the small trimaran route too, which lowers the convenience factor by quite a bit. The Birder is a few inches narrower than the Mill Creek but no worse than some sailing canoes. Check out Todd Bradshaw's "Canoe Rig" book for some ideas -- I think these types of bigger kayaks have a lot of possibilities for some fun rigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted June 22, 2013 Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 I'm interested also. What about a trimaran arrangement. The cross bar might also provide low stress support for mast stays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricknriver Posted June 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 Tri would probably work fine if primarily a sailer, but I was thinking more along the lines of a very light creek exploring paddlecraft that would use a simple sail rig to run stretches of open water quick and easy to the next little creek/tributary to explore. One with a 5-10 min. cartop/bulkhead to underway time. I get bored real quick on open water in any boat, and like exploring undeveloped creeks and swamps where powerboats fear to tread. Often you have to cross a bit of open water to get to these places from a ramp/etc., and few canoe and kayak type sail rigs can beat upwind very well when needed. Just dreams. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Cameron Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 For trimaran set up, check out http://www.baloghsaildesigns.com. There are also simpler downwind rigs that have worked well for many WaterTribe folks, like Pacific Action Sails and FEKS Sails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricknriver Posted June 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 Thanks Doug, Been thinking about the Balogh sails as they appear to have some (good?) upwind capability. There may be others? Have to read more on simple lug rigs too, that can be easily managed from the cockpit, in Bradshaw's book. Would like to avoid a head sail, but stepping a main too far forward may be tougher/risky to manage without more lines/bungee. Wondering if on the Birder 2's bit more beam and hard chine amidships, and leeboard(s) would eliminate the need for the outriggers like needed on 22-24" beam kayaks? May go on P.net and Canoe Sailor and see if any info/experiments. Want a nice comfy adjustable seat(s)too, not lay in the bilge like some :-). I have a good old beamy (15'x36") Dagger Legend tandem canoe that I could probably modify, but at 63# getting tougher for this old dog to cartop easily. The Birder 2 would shave almost 20#s off. Tks, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Cameron Posted June 24, 2013 Report Share Posted June 24, 2013 Hugh Horton (writes for Small Craft Advisor, founder of the Cedar Key messabout) sails his canoes without outriggers. He reefs noon. I've never seen him sitting on the rails like a lot of the canoe sailing racers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricknriver Posted June 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2013 My kind of sailing. Like good, easy reefing. Enjoy Hugh's articles too. Have to look for pics of his rigs. Gave up racing long ago when I aged out of windsurfers :-). Still have the boards and rigs, and could possibly mod them for a canoe but really want shorter/lighter, 2-3 piece, spars that will stow aboard easily and not impact paddling. Maybe like the rigs on Catspaws and Spindrifts, I'm now just a lazy old water "wanderer" enjoying habitats & wildlife of all species ;-). R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dolfin47 Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 To find many different canoe sail rigs, I suggest you check out the American Canoe Association (ACA). They have been building, sailing & racing C-class canoes for over 100 years (max. 55 SF sail) and when I built a sailing rig for my canoe (as we all did back in the 1970's) we could construct the whole rig any way we desired. Also the 14 ft. MacGregor sailing canoe has a nifty Gunter rig which works well & easy to reef--my grandson & I built one 5 years ago & we sailed together just last month & the rig is compact, light & sails well. Sailing canoes are more stable than one would think with pressure on the sail and lee boards, but it takes stamina that I no longer have to race in heavy winds & seas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricknriver Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Thanks Norm, Yes I follow Canoe Sailor weekly and on paper and lots of good into. ACA sailing seems more focused toward the north/northeast and I'm not into racing or group cruising (have the comfy BH for that). The ACA lanteen style rig while fine on my Sunfish, seems "more" than I want for a paddling supplement with easily stowed onboard spars and rig. Really just fishing for information/data if any specifically on Graham's Birder 2 sailing potential as it meets my car topping weight max and seems a pretty easy and low cost build. Graham should be back from New England soon and hopefully may chime in when time permits May just have to build one and experiment :-). Next time you're in Bath, maybe we can connect. Tks, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveOnCudjoe Posted June 30, 2013 Report Share Posted June 30, 2013 Rick, I bought the Birder 2 plans specifically because I believe them to be well suited to sailing. I long to do the wilderness waterway in an Everglades Challenge but am told my Sea Pearl, in reality a large sailing canoe, is too big for Broad Creek. Matt Layden seems to prefer lug rigs and I suspect I'll go in that direction or just a down wind sail as Doug suggests. I prefer a simpler approach than the Balogh rigs and believe trimarans should have a proper main hull and not an adapted form with design stability. I'm a bit twitchy on trimaran design having owned several over the last 25 yrs culminating in my current F-31. I would consider a double outrigger as a more appropriate description but I'm certainly now splitting hairs. Good luck, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dunsworth Posted June 30, 2013 Report Share Posted June 30, 2013 I second Todd Bradshaws book, it has a wealth of information on rigs, centerboards, lee boards and rudder configurations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.