Jump to content

Help glassing


Miyot

Recommended Posts

I'm using 1700 bi axial glass.  I made up a test panel yesterday and put a layer of glass on and wet it out and rolled out the air.  Then laid on  a sheet of peel ply, wet it out a little and rolled it.  I was pleased with the glass quality.  Not ropey or course.  Anyhow I peeled the peel ply off today.  Sweet.  I mixed up some resin with micro balloons and a little cabosil.  I made the mixture about like thin pudding and rolled it on and tipped it off.  I will do another coat later this evening after it tacks a little.  

 

My main question is what is the right or best method for filling the weave?  Straight resin for first coat?  What mixture do you like or use and how thick should it be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I'm using 1700 bi axial glass.  I made up a test panel yesterday and put a layer of glass on and wet it out and rolled out the air.  Then laid on  a sheet of peel ply, wet it out a little and rolled it.  I was pleased with the glass quality.  Not ropey or course.  Anyhow I peeled the peel ply off today.  Sweet.  I mixed up some resin with micro balloons and a little cabosil.  I made the mixture about like thin pudding and rolled it on and tipped it off.  I will do another coat later this evening after it tacks a little.  

 

My main question is what is the right or best method for filling the weave?  Straight resin for first coat?  What mixture do you like or use and how thick should it be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks

So you still have a bunch of weave to fill? This is one of the things that I tried to get across. Peel Ply on heavy weave glass is not always the answer. If you continue to attempt to fill the weave with resin, you will end up using a lot of resin and still not be where you want to be here. In a big boatyard setting they have lots of folks to longboard fairing compounds, which if you also remember GCC has spent untold hours doing on his biaxall glass.  One thing that you really do not want to do here is to use cabosil, simply because its hard to sand while using more resin that you really need here. What type of microballons or fairing compound do you presently have now?

 

The key to minimizing your work now is to figure out how much weave you need to fill with a fairing compound mix and work to the green stage with your layers of fairing, allowing you to forgo a lot of extra bull work. You can get the weave mostly filled and then use a good high build primer on it without sanding , as long as your hull is pretty much fair before you glass it to start with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oyster, I have West's 407 fairing filler.  When I removed the peel ply there was really no weave to fill.  Just left a print of the peel ply, I could not feel the weave.  The little ropes that tie the glass together could not be felt.  I just really wanted to put another layer on to prevent print through later, and sand to a smooth feel.   I didn't want to spend the extra or spend the time on another layer of 6 oz cloth.    The 17 oz bi ax I got is nice quality and there was no weave left to fill.  I just worried about the little ropes that tie it together printing through.  I think all I really need is a thin layer I can easily sand to smooth things nicely with out hitting the ropes.

 

I mixed up some resin and the 407 and added a small amount of the cabosil because I had read you should, somewhere.  Any how my mix was a little thick I think.  Can I just roll on a thin layer of the 407.  I was afraid if I sanded without another layer I would hit the little ropes.  I have been advised to add a layer of 6 oz cloth by several more experienced builders.  I'd do it if I had to.  I don't want to mess up now.  The planking is turning out really good, I think.  I sanded off the staples and did a light fairing with the orbital sander and it is really sweet.   If you hold up my test panel to all angles, it appears to be very smooth.  If you run a fingernail over the panel, you can't feel the ropes.  However you can see them and I worried they would print through.

 

My gut feeling is a thin, even coat of the 407 allowing me a light sanding would be good.  Or would the 410 microlight be better.  I probably have enough of the 407 to do the hull  I still have about 9 ft of the bow to plank on both sides.  I was going to make up some more test panels before I actually start glassing.  Here is where my inexperience is really showing.  I think the glass is excellent quality, it virtually disappeared except for the little ropes.   I felt the peel ply worked really well and I have enough to do the hull.  There was absolutely no weave to fill and the ropes that tie it together could not be felt.  But the ropes stand out visually and I am worried about print through.

Thanks for the advice on the cabosil, I won't use it.  I appreciate your advice.

                                                                                                                Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I can write several opinions. But can you take a picture of the glass sample that you have now looking almost horizontal  with some light on it. Maybe this will give me a better idea. If you are talking about the stitching that's raised, that's not a big deal to scuff off. Try it if you are talking about a sample piece. That's normal for it to burr up. I am a bit confused to where you are attempting to do part of the hull or a smple piece off the boat. As far as the 6 oz, well in the skeem of the entire hull and the amount of combined resin its not that much add on.

 

As far as the 407, well that's pretty good but you do not want to do any real runny coats if you do not have something now to fill.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a piece of waste ply that I glassed .  I won't start glassing the hull for about three weeks or a month.  I want the get this glass work straight before I start.  I'll make up another sample and see if I can get a good picture.  My first sample has 2 coats of the 407 on it now.  I didn't know if it should be a thick or runny coat.  Or how many coats to get a nice sand-able layer.  And wouldn't this all have to be done with the 6 oz as well. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a piece of waste ply that I glassed .  I won't start glassing the hull for about three weeks or a month.  I want the get this glass work straight before I start.  I'll make up another sample and see if I can get a good picture.  My first sample has 2 coats of the 407 on it now.  I didn't know if it should be a thick or runny coat.  Or how many coats to get a nice sand-able layer.  And wouldn't this all have to be done with the 6 oz as well. 

Personally when I use the finish cloth overlays in the wet out process and get the biax properly wetted and laying nicely, all I do is to overlay the 4or even 6 oz on it and then roll that out dry, and this pulls some of the resin up thru it for its initial wetting. Then depending on how it thoroughly wets out, I let sit for a bit and then roll one more thin coat in the finish cloth for a thorough wet out and let it sit. Keep an eye on it and make sure that it does not outgass or begin to show whitish in color, which depicts resin dryness.

 

I also dry fit any and all glass and then mark the locations of certain points with a fine point sharpie both on the glass and on the hull so that I have a great reference point in which to reroll the glass back onto the surface when I wet the hull out. I use small cardboard tubes or pvc tubes to roll the glass back up onto them which gives me something to use working the glass back onto the surface in small steps.This allows me to reduce any creases in the glass too. Align the marks to coincide with the dry fit, patting the glass back onto the surface. This may not be perfect, but will allow you to lay the glass down in its dry fit and rough cut statis.

 

But this is all done in one step. Let it get tacky or even slightly skin over and then I personally roll a coat of two part primer, even the Interprotect on it, several coats which creates a surface in which to work the magic of fairing.  Some of the folks are using the Alexseal to prime with, which is pretty filling of the tiny weave of the finish cloth.

 

I never touch the biax or deal with the burrs that is normally generated by the stitching or the lows and highs of the biax weave at all. Any lows and highs that is generated in the unfair of the hull will be seen when blocking or even sanding the primers. Then just spot those areas in.

 

You never sand any particle of glass this way or use gallons or resins , which is by itself is not structural while being heavy by comparison.  If you need material for deep filling, then the proper blends of fairing compound or even some of the primers does the job without any real effort if you apply in the green stage. But this is where you need to babysit the peel ply too, pulling it off so that you still have a surface in which to apply your chosen material right on top without sanding, allowing a chemical bond in the process.

 

 

 

Always use solvent resistant rollers and in most cases a medium nap roller for the first coat and a short nap for the second coat.. The key is to fill the surface without adding weight with compatible materials. The foam rollers are great, which leaves no dimples either. If you go that route, then you will be doing more coats, while the thin coats becomes tacky quicker and can be easily recoated while requiring more coats to fill heavy weave.

 

But I use the fabric roller heads because I use the dimples as a guide too for blocking. The key is don't wait too long to sand most two part primers because of the added toughness. How many coats of anything you ask? That's something that cannot be determined by anyone but the person doing the work, which is dependent on how smooth the initial laminates end up in the skinned over or cured state.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me add this shot that shows just the differences in two surfaces, the finish cloth against the biax. While peel ply can reduce this, I have never been able to accomplish a surface ready for primer coats of anything in one step or even rolling straight resin over the weave of the biax. The long term issues of potential print thru of the heavier weave unlike tiny print thru that can happen with the finish cloth makes me personally use the method in a home setting and working by myself where I personally like to reduce the steps towards topcoat finishes. This direction allows me to also reduce the amount of fairing compounds and all the mixing and stirring and the boarding that is required across the entire sections of the hull. In a flared boat, this is extremely tedious because you will not want to cut grooves into the ever changing surface either.

Posted Image

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for spending the time to help me out.  Planking every day.  Trying to move ahead.

                                                                                                                                       Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hopefully some of what I posted can be of use for you. There are numerous ways to glass and every single project can require a variety of methods.  What one person finds works for them may not reflect the method that works for others.  Feel free to ask others and maybe do some sample tests of a variety of ways and see what works for you. The flare portion of the boat will be the most challenging to get uniform and fair for the shiny stuff to look correct. But looking at the beautiful sailboat of yours, I think you will do just fine by the time you get things ready because you are at least doing some studying and homework before the real exam..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.