keen2buildagain Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 Fishman, sorry, but what I meant to say was the external keel or deadwood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishman38 Posted September 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 This is a crude representation of two ways to install a bow eye bolt. "B" has the hole drilled perpendicular to the grain of the stem. While (in my situation) it would be the easiest way to do this, I am concerned that the winch force, not being parallel to the axis of the bolt would put more stress on the borehole wall as well as the bolt itself and more likely to eventually lead to leaks and/or breaking the bolt. While "A" has the hole drilled more nearly parallel to the keel and may be a little more difficult to do, the winch force should be mostly against the backing washer resulting in less stress on the seal between the bolt and the borehole wall. Does this matter? Any comments on this or any other aspect regarding installing the eye bolt such as type of sealant and how to apply it are welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Wouldn't you be using a U-shaped bow eye rather than a regular eye bolt? Something similar to this: http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--stainless-steel-bow-eyes--P002_060_008_501 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E. Coyote Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 I see that part Chick posted a link to is made of 304 Stainless Steel. Are people using 304 stainless steel hardware with success? I specify stainless steel pipe/fittings sometimes at work and my understanding was that 316 SS should be used for marine applications. However, I don't have experience with this - can anyone report on this based on experience? Thanks, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter HK Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 304 is typically used for bolts/threaded components as it is slightly stronger and better with respect to wear compared to 316. It does tarnish however whereas 316 stays bright. Cheers Peter HK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishman38 Posted September 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Chick, I agree that the U bolt would seem to be a better option. However the question I posed above remains. (The eye bolt was easier to draw. ) It seems to me that parallel to the keel is better for the reason I mentioned above and even more difficult to drill two holes parallel to the keel. I also understood that 316 SS was usually used in marine applications. I'm sure that West Marine knows what they're doing and the 6 inches of threads on the longest of the three u bolts that the link Chick provides brings up would be long enough to penetrate the 3" deep stem at up to a 45 deg angle to the axis, that is the direction of the wood grain. I hope this makes some sense................... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter HK Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Hi Fishman38 As I see it the bow eye needs to accept force in more than one plane. For example it needs to accept the winch force when first being pulled onto the trailer...this is usually with the bow being lifted up high until the trailer can tilt (if a tilting trailer) or until enough of the boat is pulled onto the trailer to line up the boat with the winch line. Also it might be used for towing at some stage with commensurate side forces. I follow the view that it needs a big enough U bolt set into enough timber and backing plate that any foreseeable pull will not result in failure. Also drilling bigger holes and filling them with high strength epoxy/filler and redrilling to the right size is a good idea as the timber is not subjected to the forces directly and is extremely well sealed from moisture. I usually finally seal with Sikaflex as it remains flexible and is very durable. HTH Cheers Peter HK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David M Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 I think you may be over-thinking the structural issue, the strength is more dependent on the depth and thickness of the wood. Drill the holes perpendicular at 90 degrees or you will not have a good seat for the backing plate and have a much harder time sealing the joint. The suggestion to over drill and fill with epoxy is right on the money. I would suggest using a u-bolt with a backing plate on each side. http://www.westmarine.com/buy/suncor--bow-stern-eyes--P002_060_008_504 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docpal Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Belt and suspenders technique: use a fitted backing plate which is shaped to the interior of the stem. This adds some "meat" to your backer and as suggested above means you will have strength in almost any direction. This is just a piece of Purple heart saturated in epoxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishman38 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Thanks to all for the input. I'll go with the SST 304 U bolt @ 90 deg to the tangent of the stem, backing plate on each end, oversized holes filled with epoxy then redrilled. But I do have another question or three. I intend to build (shape) a jig guide to drill the holes to the bolt size, 5/16" I think it will be, then oversize them to what, say 3/8"? 1/2"? Then fill with what thickened epoxy I assume? Then to redrill back to bolt size using the above mentioned jig, hoping to keep the bit in the epoxy. Should I expect much difficulty in doing that? I apologize for being so anal on this issue, but I can picture problems ever after if this not done right! Most (read all) of the work on the project lately has been on necessary mods to the used trailer I bought for $500 and to date have spent upwards of another $1G on sandblasting, painting, welding etc and probably a new set of wheels and tires before I'm done. I think the end result is going to be better than anything I could have bought new under $3G. Below is latest pic of the combo just back from the welding shop. My wife's AWD Hyundai works better maneuvering this rig in and out of close quarters............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishman38 Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Back to working on jus' 'cause after spending a couple of months catching up on long neglected domestic chores. Left to right to bottom: 1. Got her right side up and on the trailer mid August. 2. Some mods required to fit the used trailer to the boat. 3. Getting ready to lay in the 1/2" radius fillets. Assumed I needed to rough up(sand, wire brush, whatever method I could come up with to reach the surfaces that needed reaching) the cured epoxy that the fillets would be adhering to. No easy chore doing this inside the engine well. 4. Used B&B epoxy thickened with West Marine #406 colloidal silica for the fillets. This pic is looking down into the engine well. Very close quarters. I tried several methods of laying in the fillets including West's fillable tubes with a regular caulking gun. What worked best? Cake icing bags, from Wal-mart or Hobby Lobby not sure which, $5 or $6 I think. 5.&6. This is a drill guide, $30 from Sears, fitted with a jig to match the shape of the stem for drilling holes for the U-bolt to be mounted in the bow. I have zero confidence in my ability to drill freehand two parallel end to end 3 1/4 inch holes through the curved stem. Maybe with this device and the help of my son. I can get close enough. Still trying to figure out how to, once the epoxy has cured in the oversized holes, re-drill it to the size of the bolt and keep the bit in the epoxy. I'm hoping the epoxy will drill easier than the pine wood making the bit tend to follow it. 7. Another shot into the engine well. This is where two bilge pumps will be installed. 8. And another. I found a small sand blaster at Harbor Freight that I think will work to abrade these glazed fillet surfaces to facilitate adhesion of the layer(s) of fiberglass which go on next. 9. Lots of prepping and filleting yet to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennieG Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Fishman- All looking good! I found the drilling For the bow eyes straight forward and there was no need for jigs etc. I started with a much smaller drill size just to confirm position accurateness , and then went progressively bigger, checking for distance between the two screws, alignment, angle etc. I then filled in with thickened epoxy, covered both sides with shipping tape, after shrinkage added more epoxy next day. I went up to 1/2" drill bit as I recall, which was a bit bigger than my stem width butt with some flattening and shaping all worked out well it appears. Next I drilled the correct size hole thru the epoxy, using marks from the SS backing plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennieG Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Photo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishman38 Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Thanks for the input LG. I probably sweat the small stuff more than I should and vice versa the big stuff. It's the little chores like this (the U-bolt thing) that people writing most of the literature seem to assume everyone knows how to do, that I do most of my worrying about. It usually turns out to be not that big a deal but that doesn't stop me from worrying about it. Besides it often gives me an excuse to buy another tool. Your boat is looking good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyot Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Good to see some progress photos. Press forward. I expect to see a spring launching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishman38 Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Thanks Miyot, late spring hopefully anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveVa Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Fisherman, It's good to see you back to building. I've been waiting to see more progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishman38 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Thanks SteveVA. There'll be another brief interlude for Thanksgiving family matters but once that's over expect to have unbroken weeks and months to work on her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveVa Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Thanks. Can't wait. I have been following all the OK posts starting with Lance and it appears yours is the only one current. The reason I am so interested is I plan to build either the 20 or 24 foot after I build the grandkids a Jessy early winter when outdoor construction slows down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishman38 Posted December 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Would someone please comment on the pros and cons of screwing vs gluing the sole in place? On a powered boat with fuel tanks going "below decks". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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