fishman38 OK20

[Phishunt]

By the way, fishman, you said you are a football fan, and I'm not too much of a trash talker, but your broncos look pathetic tonight!

 

In the essence of full disclosure, I must admit I am a red skins fan, so I really can't talk too much.

[Fishman38]

Not my Broncos Phishunt, although I do like and respect Peyton.  Haven't followed him very closely but seems he has had a game like this now and then.  I grew up in Louisiana so sort of a Saints fan and paid a little attention to Peyton's pa Archie over the years.  Fine bunch of footballers them Mannings.  Tonight Seattle is awesome!

[Fishman38]

Seemed to me the curvature of the planking the 8 or 10 inches next to the stem was going to be next to impossible. This is an attempt to soften it a bit with a little sculpting and give the plank a little sheer clamp surface to stick to without forcing a virtual 90 deg bend.  I don't know if this is the result of an error on my part; if so I can't figure out how or where.  Anyone?

 

One step at a time on the planking but getting there.  I'll be switching to 8 inch planks from here for a while.

 

 

Haven't figured out a good, easy way to scribe the planks as it seems it has to be done with the plank dry fitted to the exact shape it has to take.  So far the old eyeball method seems to work best for me; clamp it in place, guesstimate the curve, mark some points and use a batten to fill in the line as I'm getting ready to do in the last pic.  I sanded this one to the curve, clamped it in place, looked perfect, then after gluing up still had more gap than I would like at the gun'l end.  Hopefully the double, overlapping planks,plenty of goo and glass inside and out makes it forgivable.

 

One more thing: I bought one of the plastic (Raptor)  staplers and have used it some but only in some of the flatter areas.  Can't get enough leverage to close the gap where there's much curvature, and even if I could I wouldn't trust the staple to hold.  That's just me.  If anyone is interested as soon as I'm done planking (couple more weeks I hope) I'll sell it plus several thousand staples for half what I paid plus shipping.

Miyot, the walls are just too far away!

[keen2build]

Fishman,

I hope I am reading your question right regarding spiling the outside plank? If you were to mark back, say 2" (with a compass or dividers), from the finished plank edge. Do this along the edge from the chine to the sheer, you could then dry fit the next plank over (still showing your marks),then simply by using the marks measure back onto the dry fitted plank the 2". Take off the plank, join the marks with a batten. Would this would give you the curve you would be looking for?

Trev

Great job so far!

[Hirilonde]

If it is part of a system it will break some day, at the most inconvenient time and in the most inaccessible place  If you can provide access without compromising the integrity of the design, then it is probably a good idea.

[Fishman38]

Keen2build I had to read your suggestion, sleep on it, read it again and now think I understand it    Had a little trouble with the term "spiling" and the on-line dictionary I use was no help    Thanks, I'll try it tomorrow and let you know how it works for me.  I think what I need most is a third arm and hand to dry fit the plank and clamp it in place!

 

Hirilonde, I read yours and sleeping on it didn't help    Finally decided it is in response to Phishunt's query a few posts back about access to fuel tank fittings inside the center console.  In regards to that, I seem to recall someone expressing concern about locating the tank "too far forward" to comply with with Graham's design.  Trouble is I don't recall where I saw that and also don't remember any specification in the (OK20) plans for locating the tank.  That part of my build is still far ahead so haven't thought much about it.

 

Speaking of fuel tank, it just occurred to me that it might be a good idea to paint an outline on the sole to indicate where the tank lies should it happen to change ownership at some point. Nah, probably not.

[Fishman38]

Keen2build, I attempted to use your method today and must report that unless I totally misunderstand it, it just doesn't work for me.  And it may well be that I simply misunderstand the procedure.  Actually, I think one must use something like the Mercator Projection as used in map making, which I never understood either. 

[Miyot]

Fishman.  Cut out the right sized plank and just clamp it in next to the one already fastened.  Get it in close but not touching the plank already fastened.  It must be in as though ready to fasten, other than the gap to leave room for the compass point.    One or two long clamps will do.  Then just run a compass down the gap.  Running the steel point along the edge of the already fastened plank and making a pencil line on the plank to be fit.  MAKE SURE YOU COMPASS REMAINS PARALLEL TO THE KEEL THE ENTIRE WAY DOWN.  Then cut along this line.  Mark the plank to be fit with some marks on the already fastened plank aligning the two so the plank to be fit can be put back in the same spot.  Then fit them up and see how it looks.  A little touch up may be needed with the spoke shave.  This has to be more precise as you reach the flare in the bow.  Get used to it, it has to be done.  Some make a tool that can be slid down the already fastened plank and marks the to be fastened plank.  I just used the compass.  You may want to file your compass point so it doesn't catch on the end grain of the plank your sliding it down.  I notched mine a little and messed with it until it worked nicely.

 

Open your compass only far enough to bridge the gap and make a mark on the plank your fitting.  Work on it and you will get it.

[Fishman38]

Thank you Dave!  I think maybe the "compass parallel to the keel" is the key.  I have been doing essentially the same thing except that I was trying to to keep it perpendicular to the leading edge of the glued board.  .................I cannot for the life of me figure out what happens to edges of the board when its twisted into the required shape!

[Miyot]

Thank you Dave!  I think maybe the "compass parallel to the keel" is the key.  I have been doing essentially the same thing except that I was trying to to keep it perpendicular to the leading edge of the glued board.  .................I cannot for the life of me figure out what happens to edges of the board when its twisted into the required shape!

The metal point on the compass points to the stern and the pencil end points to the bow.  As you scribe down the plank, the compass must remain perfectly level at all times, parallel to the keel.  You are simply transferring a point on the already fit planks edge, to the plank you are going to fit.  The pieces you cut off of the plank you are fitting will be crescent shaped.  You will get better at it as you go.

[Fishman38]

Miyot, I'm posting this not for you oldtimers who already have their method of doing this but for any newbies (like me) out there who might want to try an alternative.   But if you're interested enough to read it, let me know if this is bears any resemblance to the tool you mentioned.

 

Neither I nor the compasses I own were up to the job, so I built a tool:

Took me about 15-20 minutes to build this thing from a scrap piece of 6mm marine grade plywood, 2- 4 penny finish nails (guides) and about a 1 inch piece of #2 pencil lead.  Holes for the nails are 1/16", for the lead 5/64".  The lead mics 5/64" and can (gently) be pushed through the 5/64" hole.  For the sake of accuracy space the holes just far enough apart to eliminate "wobble", I placed them about 2 inches apart. This replaces the compass and the need to hold it parallel to the keel while drawing the line.  Drill the hole for the lead from the midpoint of a line connecting the nail holes a distance equivalent to the "depth" (for want of the correct name of the line segment from the midpoint of a chord, perpendicular to the arc, because it's been too many years since geometry class) of the crescent mentioned by Miyot above. Call this distance D_m (see note 1 below)  Protrude the lead below the ply say 1/8 to 3/16", and the nails that, plus the thickness of the top layer of ply, so the device rests approximately parallel to the surface of the planks.  Use whatever is handy to put a point on the lead, file, sandpaper, whatever................seriously

Now, dry fit the rough cut plank, clamped into place positioned so there's a gap at the sheer and chine ends equal to D_{m ,} plus the diameter of the guides (1/16" in my case) so they will slide easily between the glued plank and the dry fitted plank. 

 

Nothing to it.  Now, keeping the guides pressed gently against the glued plank and the pencil pressed gently against the fitted plank, draw the line chine to sheer.

It worked for me:

 

Note 1:  Suggestion: guestimate the deepest of those crescents and use that number for D_{m .}  That way should get you close enough without having to deill more holes for the lead.  

 

BTW it took me 10 times longer to write this than it did to make that tool.

 

Also BTW, apologies for the crappy pictures.  If it looks like anyone has any interest in this I'll try to get better ones.

[Fishman38]

 

Closing the gap.  Had to modify my little scribe tool: drill a larger hole and use the whole pencil to keep the lead intact.

[Miyot]

That looks real nice!

[Phishunt]

Looking good fishman, I too tired the compass method for the outside layer and actually got under the boat and scribed for the inside layer. When it came down to it, I found using the hand plane and shaving a bit here and there while using the old "knee" clamp dry fit method worked the best. It appears you are doing a lot better job of cleaning as you go than I am. Tomorrow I have a lot of sanding in store for me.

[Fishman38]

 

It appears you are doing a lot better job of cleaning as you go than I am.

Phishunt, you should see the underside!  Big mess under there, hoping I can clean it up after flipping so as to look OK!

[Miyot]

I cleaned up underneath as I went.  It was a pain, but a huge time saver in the long run.  Some places could not be reached, especially the bow area.  I will have plenty of sanding to do up forward.  I don't know how many times I crawled under, just glad that is over.  Now I have to constantly climb into the boat.  Still more favorable than crawling under.  I have to admit, dragging myself under, getting resin in my hair, crawling and contorting myself into ridiculous positions.  Scraping and wiping nasty goo was to much fun.

[Phishunt]

my favorite is crawling under and getting the resin drippings that have hit the floor on the back of my shirt. Should have bought a creeper. I have plenty of dirty shop shirts, but always seem to wear a nice clean one when I need to crawl under the boat. Probably have a good half gallon of extra on the underside. The other half gallon is on assorted shirts.

 

Those getting started heed our words, clean as you go! And wear dirty clothes in the shop. And put plastic down.......There is nothing clean about boat building.

[Fishman38]

 

Decided it was time to get this thing mobile so as to be able to shift it around and make a little more workspace at the section I'm currently working on.

 

 

Getting into the short rows on the planking, eager to get done with this phase and the longer hours are wearing this old man down!

 

 

Phishunt there were some days such that when I got done with the the gluing for the day and cleaning up the tools etc there was enough energy left to crawl underneath and clean up the slop over;  a few other days not so much.  Will just have to put those hours in after she's flipped.  Planning to put plastic down for the glassing phase but didn't think about it for the planking.  Maybe a good idea but maybe not in my case since my shop floor has a sort of glaze finish and the goo pops off fairly easily after it hardens, maybe easier than wiping it up while still soft.

 

Still having fun but ready to move on the next phase.  I did get the slot cut for the motor a day or two ago and started trimming the planks at the chine. 

 

Also ordered a 25 yard x 60" (I think) roll of econoply from Airtech International, $89 including shipping.

[Fishman38]

Finally got all the holes closed.

[Fishman38]

Not a lot got done today, mostly clean-up.  Did however get a flat spot for the motor mount glued up.

 

In talking to Graham I understand that for glassing purposes, on transitions such as transom to bottom, keel, chine, etc, one should create (cut) a round-over, radius of which depends on the weight of the fabric and maybe the angle of the corner, 3/8 inch for 10 # glass at the chine for example (approximately 90 deg).  This makes sense to me for getting the fabric to lay properly on the wood surface.  I just want to make sure I understand this before I start cutting into perfectly good plywood joints.  I do not question Graham's instructions, it's just that I don't trust my hearing.  I read better than I hear.

 

Also, I have routers, round-over bits etc, which work great on 90 deg joints but otherwise not so much.  So I assume I'll use whatever works, planes sanders and so on.  Comments, advice etc are welcomed.