Princess 26

[PeterP]

Howard, I have used 5/4" corner board -a lot -which should be available. Because it is milled to 5 1/2" wide you may have to do more glueing to get wider stock. I can tell you getting fired up -BTW- PeterP

[Hirilonde]

Could be the coasts that have marine industries share in the good stuff or rather the yards get requests for it and know where and how to get it?

I'm sure that is part of it.  But I also have an outdoors lumber supplier.  They only carry lumber that is particularly good to use outdoors but do not carry anything treated.  Their customers are mostly high end housing contractors.  They are my primary source for Alaskan Yellow Cedar, Meranti and WRC.  There is also a small family lumber yard that stocks other woods that are not just good for boats, but furniture and cabinets.  I don't know how long some of them can hold out.  Home Depot is a big presence in the area and Lowes is not far behind.

[Scott Dunsworth]

Might be worth a try, when I built my house I used some 2x6's that were 26 feet long for roof rafters. The lumber yard said DF was the only thing they could get in that length.

Some of the Lowes stores carry #1 select DF in one by stuff up to 12 feet long, 6 inch was the widest, I used that for my Belhaven.

I'm using clear yellow pine 2x12's to cut my keel lamination's from. Its heavy, but that's a good place to use heavy and strong. I plane mine down to about 1 3/8's to get them perfectly flat.

Personally I would stay as far away from treated lumber as possible, it may take two years to get the stuff truly dried out.

[Howard]

The idea for using treated lumber for the keel deadwood came from the notion that the keel, even with a lead keel shoe on the bottom, will likely come into contact with all manner of bottom debris and if it the glass sheathing is ever breached, water is going to get in. To give you an idea of what I'm worried about......a few years back, the water in our lake dropped low enough that boats with any draft at all were hitting the submerged steel cables holding the marina in place. First clue anything was wrong was when the boat came to a sudden stop. What it was hitting was the leading edge of the keel.  If had happened with this boat, and the glass coating on the leading edge were breached, one would probably prefer the keel to be treated wood vs. untreated. More of a belt and suspenders approach. But the reality is, the only product out there that would likely be of any benefit in those conditions is the old CCA pressure treated and one rated for full immersion. I've been told by all the local sources, "you won't find that anywhere". It is still made, but it's use is restricted to things like piers and such.

 

What is readily available is the MCA stuff.  This is a pretty good summary of the issue for the hopelessly curious:

 

http://www.deckmagazine.com/wood/the-new-preservatives.aspx

 

So for my use as keel deadwood, aside from the fact that the MCA treatment may not work as intended, there are two issues to be concerned about. One is the idea that it may not be compatible with epoxy as an adhesive and coating. The other is the potential for corrosion of metals. I plan to fully isolate the keel bolts from whatever wood is used so corrosion may not be an issue, but if the epoxy doesn't stick, I'd have a wreck to deal with down the road.

 

Lastly, I really have no idea what kind of galvanic corrosion trouble I'd be asking for sticking a blend of MCA treated wood, lead keel, silicon bronze keel bolts and copper based bottom paint on a keel and dunking it into salt water.

 

Bottom line is I'll likely do what Scott suggests and use untreated yellow pine or some such as my keel deadwood and take my chances with a breach of the glass coating. The front edge of the keel is the tip of the spear where the damage is likely to occur, and it may get several layers of Xynole polyester for abrasion resistance with maybe a layer of kevlar in the layup for good measure. Kevlar wouldn't be any good for the surface coating, but buried down below, not much is going to get past it.

 

And Scott is right about treated lumber being wet. I've seen stuff out of newly opened bundles that when cut, does not throw saw dust, but more like saw slush. Lumber so wet you can almost squeeze water out of it. It does take a long time to dry. The 2X stock in that photo came from a source where it had been under covered storage for over two years. I trust it to be dry and made from yellow pine, it is heavy.....and strong. But it is also MCA treated.

[Howard]

Peter:

 

Yup........ready to roll. Will never happen of course, but would really like to get a few weeks clear time to get this started. The way these go together, with the precut panels and bulkheads, once you assemble all the materials and get your work area setup, you can make remarkable progress in a short amount of time......at least as far as hull assembly is concerned. Finishing her out..........that may take a while.

[Hirilonde]

I wouldn't worry about wood rotting while the boat is in the water.  Boats have been built out of non-treated lumber for many years, and with care they do not rot.  I would be more interested in a strong stable wood and if you bang into stuff hard then inspect for damage and deal with it.  Isn't the bottom of the keel and leading edge going to be lead?

[Howard]

Bottom half of the keel is lead. The lead portion on the bottom is going to take the abuse of any groundings, etc. Not much concern there. The top half is where the keel and hull join. What that might come into contact with is any floating debris, etc. that the hull runs into and over. Since the keel is swept back, anything the rides down the bottom of the hull and into contact with the keel, will first encounter the wooden part. That was the part I would glass over heavily and may include some kevlar in the layup........to prevent any breaches of the glass coating.

 

Interior keel planks are in the bilge. I don't intend to have any holes in the hull to leak, but gravity works and any water that does find a way into the boat will settle in the bilges. But those are going to be sealed up with epoxy and glass. Not too concerned about those at all.

[Scott Dunsworth]

Howard most of our worries are just that worries. Of course there is always a special situation where everything comes together at just the right time to cause problems.

My Belhavens lead shoe took all the bottom abuse I gave the boat, just ask Rick he smoothed out some of those dings after he bought her. Every Time I took a hard hit to the bottom I would simply look her over when I got her back on the trailer.

 

My new build will probably only get hauled every two or three years for bottom paint and inspection.

 

Building your keel with lamination's will also give you the benefit of, if a small breach is made it cant get through the glue line into another layer of the keel or the hull itself. It would start to swell and delaminate the glass along time before rot could even get started. If that happened, all you would have to do is grind the glass out to let her dry out and reglass.

 

 I only had two layers of 10 oz glass on my deadwood and never even scratched through the VC paint in six years of heavy use.

 

My best unprofessional advise is just build her, lay a extra layer of glass in common since areas and just go sailing. I know its easier said than done, just check her out every once in a while and everything will be OK.

[John Burritt]

You've just got to dig a bit deeper if you want the CCA. Find someone selling wood for piers. You don't have to tell them that your "pier" is stuck to the bottom of your boat. CCA is still available in eastern NC for use under houses and docks that get wet, just not for decks, etc.

[Wayne Robson]

Pleased to report that P26 "TWIGGY" was launched on the 8th Feb in Whangarei, NZ and completed her maiden voyage south to Waiheke Island. Can't tell you much about her sailing abilities as the entire trip of about 80 miles was made into headwinds and commitments at home required that we motor most of the way.She did show promise on day one as we sailed down Whangarei Harbour in light winds. I'll update as we get to sail locally around the Hauraki Gulf.

[Gordy Hill]

Wow!

 

She's absolutely beautiful!

[makenmend]

Wow!

 

She's absolutely beautiful!

Couldn't agree more, nice job.

 

MM

[Howard]

Yup........that is enough to inspire a guy to want to build one just like it!

 

Lots to study in those photos, and to quiz Wayne on. Like what he made his masts from......aluminum or wood.......same with the wishbone sprits, etc.

 

I seem to recall Wayne used a 10 HP outboard in a modified well. Wonder how what worked. Enough power or over powered? (I am thinking 8 HP with high thrust prop). Also interested in his anchor setup. That looks like a sampson post and windlass beside his anchor locker. Good, sturdy equipment all.

[TrailerSailor]

Hello!!!!

Concratulations for that boat. She is a real beauty. Have fun with her.

[Wayne Robson]

Hi folks, we have covered quite a few miles under sail in P26 Twiggy and pleased to report she sails beautifully,and is everything we hoped for. I'll qualify that by noting that we are limited going to windward because in my wisdom I reduced the amount of lead in the centerboard and find that it prefers to float rather than sink. Easily fixed with more lead but I have considered adding a downhaul to avoid having too much load on the 4:1 uphaul. The Honda 10 does a great job and is more than enough power, mostly running at only half throttle.

Some of the changes we made;  1. Laminated coachroof with 3 layersof 6mm ply-a little heavier but strong and no headthumping beams.

  2.Raised the cabin top in the galley area to getabout 5'9"headroom

 

  3.Extended the cabin back to the mizzen mast- gives a good increase in interior space and the cockpit space still seems adequate

  4Added small fins near each chine to keep boat upright when beached. That may havesome effect on sailing characteristics  but small %wise I think.

 

  5.offset the motor to gain enough room for walk thru transom. Motor hinges up thru a slot in the transom and the well is faired out

to allow free flow of water.There are a few degrees of adjustment in motor alignment and that allows us to balance up tiller steering.The walk thru transom is well worth the extra work

 

 

  6. Used wishbone booms . the hard curved front end of of each boom is bent in a hydraulic bender, the long pieces are sprung into

shape and held together with a laminated ply piece that gives mainsheet and topping lift attachment points.

The boat is quite stable at rest and stands up well in 20knts of wind which is the most we have experienced. Still working on permanent reefpoints.

 

Any questions welcome but I'll be away for a few days , cheers Wayne

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[maligno]

Interesting mods indeed!

And I'd appreciate more detail on the walk-through transom--I've been considering one for my ongoing Belhaven build.

[Howard]

Thanks Wayne. That is timely news on the CB. Had already concluded it would be a good idea to "test sink" it before installing in the boat. Not only does that board have to sink, but has to have enough weight to pull all the line back through the resistance of that 4:1 lifting tackle. I am beginning to suspect that board, with lead ballast tip, may end up in the range of 100 pounds or so actual weight.

 

Speaking of CB's, mine is currently in progress. On most boats, that is something that can be done at the end, but on this boat, since the width of the CB trunk is related to the finished thickness of the CB, you need to have the finished and glassed over CB on hand before the CB trunk is built. Installing the trunk comes early on in the build process......shortly after the hull is turned. So that means a CB built and shaped at the least, with some idea of the thickness of the glass that will go on it.

 

Scaled out the CB on plywood and cut that out as a template. Once the template is trued up and fair, will use the template to trace the pattern on the board blank on both sides to help with shaping and fairing. Template will be retained in case as spare is needed someday.

 

 

[Howard]

Last week I finally got a chance to run down a lead (leed) on some lead (led). I found the right guy. He had about 400 pounds of wheel weights he wanted to get rid of and when I mentioned that was a good start, but would be needing more, he found 600 pounds of lead shot he wanted to get rid of as well.  At the same time, I got the crib notes / crash course in metallurgy and melting wheel weights. Wheel weight lead would seem to have a good mix of lead, 3% antimony (hardness) and 1% tin (easy flow) for this type of project. The lead shot is about the same....without the tin. A bit early to be buying this, but I figure you take it when you find it.

 

Will get started melting down the wheel weights to clean them up. Also need to get going on the external keel as both the CB tip and keel will be made from sand castings. Want to get those made and drying out to avoid the moisture issues with molten lead.

[Wayne Robson]

Howard, I've just this week taken the CB cover off and found that my CB will push down to full depth quite easily. So taking the easy option I added a downhaul line and lead that out into the cockpit via the same tube used for the uphaul. Haven't tested it under sail but it works ok on the mooring. I have added a home made auto release cleat for the downhaul to allow for unexpected impacts! The advantage in having the board almost at floating weight is that it will retract easily on impact.

[Howard]

Wayne:

 

Thanks for the note. Assuming I get to the 50 pounds of ballast as specified, I should have a sinking board. My guess is a stopper knot should also be put in the cockpit end of the pendant to prevent the board from going too far forward as well.

 

The CB on my current 17 footer is a 180 pound slab of cast iron. The old pie shaped type of board. It has no trouble dropping, or staying down. The aft end of it rests on a stopper pin. If it hits an object, it will retract, but then come crashing back down with a thud that shakes the whole boat. That will get your attention.

 

Also, sometime when its convenient, shoot a few photographs of your motor setup. I think you have posted photos of the transom slot, but I would like to see how you did the motor well. I think your motor hangs on a fixed mount and retracts.  Also how you did the rigging for the main and mizzen.

 

Thanks!