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Princess 26


Howard

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Greg:

 

I've never kept track of it all, and I suspect the main reason for that was I wouldn't want to know. In my case, a lot of it has been for things I needed, but didn't have, like mods to my daughter's barn so I would have a place to build, plus some higher end power tools I didn't have but felt would make things easier. Things like a band saw, jointer, panel saw, etc. Hard to chalk that up to the cost of a single boat when they are tools that will be around long after the build is completed. In other words, not materials.

 

Last time I checked, there was a materials list for the Princess on the B&B site. That would be a good place to start. Put it all on a spreadsheet and put some unit numbers to the units. I know the plywood alone was around $2,500 and probably about that for the epoxy and glass. Other items that have some big price tags are the sails, motor, trailer etc, not to mention an electrical system, galley, and incidentals. Many of those have the same price tag as the plywood does.

 

To this point, cost has not been an item for me personally. My issue has been finding the time to keep moving on this due to a move, grandchild with special needs and aging parents. No volume knob on that stuff that you can turn down or off.

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Howard, I did an estimate about 5 or 6 years ago. Edith and I were kicking the idea around last night and I was thinking the plywood would be about $2500, and everything else for a total budget of somewhere between $15K and $25K. The high end would be if I had to rent a place to do the assembly. I already have a 5hp outboard, which is what I used to push my Catalina 22 wing keeled around. It might work until I could afford a 10hp. I have a trailer too, but am not sure it is suitable for the PS26; again I need to do some more homework, but that might save me money. I have the time now to build it, but need to find the money and space and enough ambition to do it.

 

I really have appreciated all you have shared and pictures posted. Thank you.

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Greg,

I'm not qualified to answer this question, but I'll tell you this.  My little Bay River Skiff cost about $4,000 before I was done.  The plywood cost $500-- almost a negligible part of the total cost.  It's all the other stuff that adds up.  It's hard to nail down the cost, too, because it depends in part upon what level of materials you're using-- WEST epoxy or the other end of the cost spectrum, Awlgrip or latex paint (some actually do!), etc.  That's why it's hard to get a straight answer.

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Greg,

I'm not qualified to answer this question, but I'll tell you this.  My little Bay River Skiff cost about $4,000 before I was done.  The plywood cost $500-- almost a negligible part of the total cost.  It's all the other stuff that adds up.  It's hard to nail down the cost, too, because it depends in part upon what level of materials you're using-- WEST epoxy or the other end of the cost spectrum, Awlgrip or latex paint (some actually do!), etc.  That's why it's hard to get a straight answer.

Don, I understand. Thank you for sharing what you do know. I appreciate your effort.

I am still finding pieces of the plan set which I had forgotten about and then somehow got it mixed up with other plan sets. 

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Costs can vary wildly, because of several factors. Materials alone can be pretty dramatically different around the country. Material choices also can be difficult, for example, some use West System or System Three goo's, while others pay half to 1/3rd as much, with discount epoxies that perform just as well. Here in Florida plywood is cheap, because we're the country's biggest plywood user. Shipping for special orders and hardware, depend on distances. The decisions made about equipment and finishes can make huge impacts on the cost of a build.

 

Generally, you can take the BOM and get a rough idea of costs. With some shopping around, you might be able to cut these by 20%. Knowing materials helps a lot. For example, many buy BS-1088 Okoume, which is good stuff, but a BS-1088 sheet of Meranti is usually half as much. To further this, a BS-6566 sheet of Meranti is another 20% - 30% cheaper and often of the same or similar quality to the BS-1088 sheet. The same would be true of solid stock needs. You can pick through pallets of stuff at the big box store and find a few mis-marked pieces that are perfect, but you'll need to mill it down to the size you need. I do this so regularly, that the big box store employees know me and expect me to help, as they offload a new shipment and begin to stack in the racks, knowing I'll be sorting through them as soon as it's labeled. On the other hand you can find a local mill that can offer deals, just to move the stock off their lot.

 

If you have swap meets in your area, 99% of the stuff you'll see, isn't anything you'll need, but you'll never find anything if you don't look. Flea markets can be the same deal, but don't be surprised if you walk away with zip, more often than a good find on some old bronze ports. In the end, the industrious builder gets it done the cheapest. You can get deals, but there's usually a fair bit of "leg work" involved. Most shops, mills and big box stores will have "culls" of stock that are considerably discounted. Check these out first. You might have to buy a $100 bucks of crap, just to get what you really wanted. This is why an average build, materials cost is difficult to estimate.

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I still maintain that the cost of lumber is only a fraction of the cost of the boat.  For me, that fraction was around 1/8th.  The larger costs will be in hardware, sails & spars, paint, lights, safety equipment, and so on.  System Three sells a 5 gallon container of resin.  It's like getting a gallon for free.  But Graham's epoxy is much less expensive, as is Raka's.

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Paul makes several good points (as usual), but one that gets missed is the location part. If you are building a boat, it really does help if you live in an area where they build boats and have materials and material suppliers for that. Example would be me living in Missouri. I'm not sure there is even one single retail source for marine plywood in the state. There are a number of boat builders in the state, but they are building bass boats, pontoons, etc, and they buy their plywood by the truckload, (and much of it is nothing more than pressure treated rough plywood) but they don't retail it and won't sell it to me. And we don't have a single marine second hand store in the state. So mail order and ebay it is.

 

Also helps if you understand how to work around things. I have gained a better understanding of some things Graham has said over the years about doing things cheap and easy after a visit with a relative who is also from Australia. The relative and I were talking about how to go about replacing the exhaust manifold on a 1958 GMC truck.....I mentioned how difficult it would be to source the part and he looked at me like I was crazy. Why buy a part when you can make it yourself......cheap and easy. My guess is the Aussies and others in remote locations, far removed from normal parts lines, etc. have been forced to learn how to make do with little to nothing to work with. Or else there might be something in the water that infects them.

 

So for those of us in the boat building wilderness/hinterlands, we just need to do the best we can and live with it.

 

I sill think a good way to source a lot of this would be to take a trip to a boat heavy destination.......a place where old boats go to die and find a derelict or two and scavenge as many parts as you can off those. Winches, anchors, anchor rollers, cleats, blocks, fittings, etc. Stuff that would cost a small fortune if buying new from retail sources can be had for almost nothing off derelicts and wrecks. Curious how much of that stuff is piled up in heaps in NC, SC and FL these days?

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Thank to each of you for your thoughts and advice. I always appreciate that and learn a great amount too.  :)

 

I have not seen any numbers yet as to what was actually spent to build a PS22 or 26, which is what I am curious about and hoping to learn. Build estimates versus actual build cost can be very useful.

 

Graham just emailed me an up to date BOM, which will be used to update the spreadsheet that was created 5 years ago.  I am fairly certain that the estimate was about $15,000 back then, based on buying everything new or from the most common sources. Once this is updated I will share what I came up with, dollar wise. It should be interesting to get a critique of my estimate too. Design reviews save making bad mistakes; often anyway.

 

An advantage of living on Lake Michigan is all the boat yards, which I use to haunt and find great bargains.  :D

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I have not started my PS26 yet but have been doing some rough budgeting on new material. There are four items which I would put at around $2500 each: trailer, plywood, outboard and two sails, a total of $10,000. Next step down is around $1000 each: masts, rigging, lifelines, lead, lumber, epoxy, electrical, fiberglass and paint. Now we're up to $19,000. I think a completely outfitted boat could easily approach $30,000. Anyway that's what I'm figuring as much as I would like it to come in much less.

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I have not started my PS26 yet but have been doing some rough budgeting on new material. There are four items which I would put at around $2500 each: trailer, plywood, outboard and two sails, a total of $10,000. Next step down is around $1000 each: masts, rigging, lifelines, lead, lumber, epoxy, electrical, fiberglass and paint. Now we're up to $19,000. I think a completely outfitted boat could easily approach $30,000. Anyway that's what I'm figuring as much as I would like it to come in much less.

Wow, that stuff really adds up. What size motor are you looking to use? On my last two boats, both with fixed keels, a Catalina 22 wing keel and a Laguna Balboa 24, fin keel, all that was needed was a 5hp outboard to push them to hull speed. I still own one and am hoping it would work for the PS26. I am keeping an eye out for a used 10hp. Putting on a power prop would really help too.

 

Trailer cost. Your estimate looks right on the money. I plan to find a good used one, do some upgrades as needed, for less than a $1000, maybe more like $500. I already have one trailer but need to check its capacity vs. the PS26. I have been using it to tote my Spindrift 12 around but it is made for a much bigger boat. It was selling for $300 a few years ago, in excellent condition, so I snagged it.

 

Plywood is looking to be about $2500 here too. I usually use Okume as it is lighter in weight, but have used Merianti while building lapstrake boats. Okume cost more, so no decision by me yet. It may come down to a decision made strictly on cost.

 

Dimensional lumber is another area I will save money on. Currently I have about 600 bdft, mostly white oak, sassafras, and catalpa. I also have a mahogany plank 12 ft long, 2 thick, and 14 wide, which could be used to make hand rails and other such things. There is a smattering of fir, maple, red oak, yellow pine, red pine, walnut, cherry, ash, etc. Maybe another 400 bdft. There is already some 6mm okume and several other panels of various types out in the shed, left over from other boat projects. One of these days I suppose an inventory would be a thing to do?  Hmmmm? Thinking about it, there is probably another 500 to 1000 bdft in the loft above the garage shop.  My wife and kids keep teasing me about being a pack rat. I have boxes of hatches, blocks, cleats, lights, and so on stashed in the shed too. All this should help a little in getting my cost down below the $30K. Oh, must be a dozen life vest out there too, and about a dozen sails from a variety of boats. Would a spinaker work on the PS26?

 

Lead and the stuff to work on it is something I need to find around this area. At the moment I am not sure where to look.

 

End of the year bills and expenses will tie up any extra money here in my house hold, so I will not be purchasing anything until after next years tax season. Hopefully, I can get the plywood & epoxy purchased and the hull made by the end of summer 2017. 

 

This whole project is daunting to me at times.  Sigh.

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Your 5hp Motor will be enough on a lake with no strong currents. It is a sailboat at first ;-)
Here on the river Elbe, the Northsea and the waddensea with strong tidal currents of 5-6 knots i would go with a 8-10hp motor.
So it depends on the water you intend to sail.
All the sum of costs is what let me hesitate to start building yet. I would have to pay rent for a workshop.
So i can not make a break for a year or so if my business does not bring in the needed money for building materials.
A shed or workshop is very expensive here to rent. So better i would build a shed on my ground.
But a building permisson is not easy to get by local authorities.

Its all not as easy as it should be ...... :( 
Good luck and a prospering business for your project !

All the best
Sönke

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I agree with Sonke on the motor. No doubt the 5hp will get the P26 to hull speed but some reserve for bucking wind and currents is desirable.In that respect I think a 5 - 6hp is suitable for the P22 and an 8 - 10hp for the P26. Here in Thailand an outboard motor is about the only thing available to buy second hand for a boat like this and being imported they are still expensive (around $2000) So I will probably go that route.

 

Trailers of any type are rarely seen here and again mostly imported. I could have a new one built for around $4000 or buy a new imported one for probably double that.

 

Everything else I am figuring on buying new as recreational boating is virtually non-existent in comparison to developed countries. I will surely be importing many items.

 

I am about halfway complete with my storage shed and covered work area...thankfully no permits required in my area.

 

It is a sizable project but I have a new house to build along with the boat and the house is substantially larger. In my case I have more time than money so I just try to accomplish any little thing each day and eventually it will come together. I am in no hurry and get as much pleasure out of the building process as anything.

 

Cheers, Rex

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   My project boat is a 3000kg 26 footer that was originally equipped with a 6hp inboard when it was built sometime around 1980 and it was still in the boat when I got it last year so it was probably sufficient before the boat sank (I'm replacing it with a motor of equal or less power).  The current can run a few knots at places on the local river and there are routine 20+ knot breezes here in the summertime.  I think your 5hp motor will be about perfect for a P26.  It'll probably push you to somewhere close enough to hull speed and I agree with Sonke that you only need to be able to buck the current.  If you're local current is much higher than hull speed I think you should be looking at a 30hp motor instead of a 10 (or a planing hull). ;)  If the wind is blowing you can either sail or motor-sail.  If the wind is not blowing you have only the current to bother with.

   If you're in a hurry put up more sail :) And if the problem is too much wind, a storm sail might get you through the gales of November better than a 10hp motor... If you've already got a 5hp motor I say keep it and give it a try.

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Greg......no worries. Anyone who might come across this thread and are interesting in this boat should be interested in what is being said.

 

A couple thoughts of mine on the motor. First, the design places a short shaft motor of some type in the well, which is in the aft end of the cockpit. I've thought it over and unless you want to do as Wayne did and offset it off the centerline and cut a hole in the transom for it, you will need to use the lifting tackle to raise and lower your motor vertically, as designed. There isn't room to tilt it, which would be my first choice. So the physical size of the motor may be a limitation. In a calm, even a little 3 hp single stroke will move it along. Not so trying to make headway in a blow or bucking a tidal current. Yet another issue with the size of the motor is if you intend to use it's alternator to charge your house battery. If that is the plan, it will take a motor in the range of 10 hp to get an alternator big enough to move the dial much. I plan to cruise the boat, so that may involve long stretches of motoring in a calm. My likely engine will be a 10 hp. That will also require careful balance and placement of the on board weight.

 

Once you get into a boat of this size, there is a lot to take into account and consider. A lot of options to alter to suite, as long as you know what the cause and affect of any decision you make is.

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Greg......no worries. Anyone who might come across this thread and are interesting in this boat should be interested in what is being said.

 

A couple thoughts of mine on the motor. First, the design places a short shaft motor of some type in the well, which is in the aft end of the cockpit. I've thought it over and unless you want to do as Wayne did and offset it off the centerline and cut a hole in the transom for it, you will need to use the lifting tackle to raise and lower your motor vertically, as designed. There isn't room to tilt it, which would be my first choice. So the physical size of the motor may be a limitation. In a calm, even a little 3 hp single stroke will move it along. Not so trying to make headway in a blow or bucking a tidal current. Yet another issue with the size of the motor is if you intend to use it's alternator to charge your house battery. If that is the plan, it will take a motor in the range of 10 hp to get an alternator big enough to move the dial much. I plan to cruise the boat, so that may involve long stretches of motoring in a calm. My likely engine will be a 10 hp. That will also require careful balance and placement of the on board weight.

 

Once you get into a boat of this size, there is a lot to take into account and consider. A lot of options to alter to suite, as long as you know what the cause and affect of any decision you make is.

A bigger motor will not help much if the current you are working against exceeds your boats hull speed, assuming it is a displacement type. For instance, my Catalina 22 would make hull speed on about 1/3 throttle with a standard prop (not the better power type prop), which was 5 or 6 knots. When trying to get up the river, when it was flowing at 4 knots, my throttle was wide open and the boat was only seeing about 1 knot actual. When the river currents exceeded the hull speed, the boat stayed in the slip or I anchored out until the river slowed down. It needed about 1 knot just to keep steerage.  It was very similar on the Laguna Balboa 24 too.  I think I will put a power prop on the 5hp and not have any trouble?  Hmmm? What is the maximum hull speed for the PS26?

 

Good point about the alternator. I was thinking of going that route on the first two boats but it adds a lot of weight going from the 5 to the 9.9 hp outboards.  How about a sail drive type of motor? I saw one on an O'day 23 but have never used one.

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............Hmmm? What is the maximum hull speed for the PS26?

 

 

 

 

Hull speed will be about 6.7 knots calculated by V=2,43x √LWL (metric formula, the imperial is 1.34 instead of 2.43)

I think a P26 will plane if a powerfull motor is installed.

Graham can calculate it more exactly i think...

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