Any Gotchya's to watch out for on Spindrift?

[bhanchett]

I'm going to join almost a thousand others and build a B&B Spindrift 10 dinghy in the next couple of months.  I think my plans were #990 or #992.  I have looked through the photo-blogs (thank you very much) and the construction looks very straight forward.  Is there any thing special I should look out for?  Also, I have used West epoxy before but would like to hear any other recommendations anyone has to offer on other epoxys or other Spindrift related ideas.  I'm jumping ahead here but am looking for the best source for sails.  Does anyone have experience in car topping these dinghys?  I am going to be towing an RV so can't use a boat trailer.

[Hirilonde]

Graham numbers the Spindrifts as a group, so all Spindrifts are in the same pool of numbers.  Just so you know.  Hard to say what a gotchya is, probably depends on your woodworking/boatbuilding experience.  But it is a rather straight forward build.  Just be sure to follow the instructions and don't try to fix a proven design and build.  Admonish if you must, but don't fix.  There are lots of good epoxies out there.  It is like cars, some poeple are very opinionated and some aren't.  If you need to buy some now I suggest just getting it from B&B.  Order your sails from them too.  You won't save much any where else if at all and Graham has already figured out what is best for his boats.  Have fun, it is a great choice for what you are doing.

[Charlie Jones]

A huge second on ordering epoxy from B and B.. Great folks to deal with.

[bhanchett]

Thanks for your response.  In terms of experience, I've built several small boats under 12' but over 30 years ago.  After my second retirement I was a handyman professionally for about 4 years so I have time with wood and lots of tools but wrapping the wood around frames to keep the water out is almost a new experience again.  I can't use my framing nailer.

 

I'm glad to see you both recommend using B&B as a source.  That will really reduce my ordering time if I don't have to search for the best deal.

[hokeyhydro]

Another vote for B&B epoxy. I've been using it recently and find no fault with it. Do the math B&B v. WEST and your checkbook will jump for joy.

[Howard]

Having the woodworking experience and tools will be a big plus. Aside from the usual recommendation to measure twice or even three times before cutting, what works best is to measure out the panels and cut both sides at the same time.  Having both halves of the boat being exact twins goes a long ways towards a symmetrical boat. Unless you are really good with a saw, it also helps to cut slightly outside the lines and trim to the line with a hand plane. For the longer panels without the sweeping curves, consider using a circular saw set shallow.......aside from not wandering around, the cut is square. (I've been surprised to find that even my high end Bosch jigsaw sometimes leaves a slightly beveled cut).

 

Epoxy is amazing stuff, but there is a learning curve associated with it. West is a good product, but is probably the most expensive product you could use and it uses a different mix ratio that is dependent on the pumps to get the right mix. B&B offers a good product, as do others. Most are 2:1 that can be mixed using pumps or measured. If you use the pumps, always mix as you go. One pump epoxy......one pump hardener. Alternate back and forth. You won't lose tract of the count that way. Most commercially offered epoxies are pretty good, but a lot of the difference is in the hardener you use. Good to have at least a fast option and slow option. If you are in a warm climate, the slower the better. Most allow fast and slow to be mixed in the same batch to give you medium, but be aware they are all different. Product A's "slow" is not the same as Product B's. They are similar but different. In some cases, way different. The rub is you generally want things to kick off and harden when you are finished with what you are doing. For a small job, that needs to be quick so you don't have to wait until the next day to continue. On the other hand, you don't want to mix up a modest size batch for a modest sized job and watch it go off in front of you, wasting expensive epoxy and creating an ugly hockey puck reminder in the process. Part of the learning curve of working with the stuff.

 

When you get to the point of taping the bow section together prior to unfolding the "butterfly", make sure the taped joint has had sufficient time to cure. Just because it looks hard and is no longer tacky does not mean it has cured. That joint will be under enough strain that in some instances, the plywood fails. That taped joint has to be as strong or stronger than the plywood. It will be if it's cured. If not, it may start to look like slow taffy and let go.  This time of year, a slow cure hardener might not cure enough in several days if not a week. Second part of this is to make sure that both halves are glued the same to make them a perfect matched pair. You cut them to match and you have to glue them to match as well. Best way to do that is to stack them. Experienced builders can do both halves at the same time (to save time). Less experienced might want to do them one at a time, but still stack them to make them exact twins.

 

Once you get to the point of unfolding the boat and stitching, prepared to be amazed at the instant boat. A good inexpensive product to use for the wire is simple rebar tie wire sold in hardware stores. Cheap and just the right size.

 

Lastly, don't rush it. If anything does not look right, stop to check it out. Once you glue it, you are stuck with it. If anything doesn't look right, tweak it until it does. There are more tricks as you go, but that, plus what the others have offered, should get you a long ways down the road.

[goyousalukis]

My only gotcha: I bought Raka epoxy which has worked great for me, but they were out of 3 inch fiberglass cloth, and the guy on the phone talked me into buying a 12 inch roll for about the same price. I thought it would be easy to cut it into 3 inch strips, but that wasn't the case. The cut sides unraveled and left a stringy mess to sand out. I should have shoped elsewhere for the 3 inch tape.

[Charlie Jones]

Again-B and B. Check with Carla for ANYTHING you need, before you buy elsewhere.

 

And Howard- I HIGHLY recommend cutting outside the line, and block planing TO the line. Been doing this since 1976, and I still do it that way.  Norm Cross taught me that!!

 

One reason, particularly on hull bottom halves- if there's an error, it's doubled- too wide, you have a bulge. Too deep and you get a dished spot. Chines, no so bad. Still be careful, but be really particular about the bottom  halves.

[Howard]

On the 3 inch tape issue, one of the issues of taped joints is dealing with the selved edges after the epoxy has cured. Leaves a distinct bump that has to be faired out.  I've never heard of anyone doing this, but I might be tempted to use 4 inch tape and when the epoxy has started to kick......go back with a sharp utility knife and trim the outside half inch or so  off each side and simply lift the selved edge off and pitch it. Seems to me that little bit of labor would leave you miles ahead of going back to scrape / plane / sand off that bump to fair it out.

[bhanchett]

I appreciate all of the input.  I saw some boat construction pictures recently where the builder had laid tape down several inches from the joint on both sides so the epoxy slopped over the tape edge could be cleaned up easily.  If that was combined with Howard's idea of cutting the tape edge off, clean up of the joint would be very easy.

 

Someone suggested using rebar wire to tie the hulls together.  Is there any reason why copper wire is normally suggested?

[Charlie Jones]

easier to handle. I've used tie wire too- tough stuff, and harder to use than needed., I now I use a galvanized wire, or copper.

 

A quick tip- you'll want 3 inch lengths- wind 6-8-10 feet of the  wire in a tight spiral around a one inch PVC pipe, slide it off the end, and using tin snips, cut along one side- Voila- a whole bunch of 3 inch pieces  - PI to the rescue

[tom151]

I appreciate all of the input.

idea of cutting the tape edge off

Using a 'sharp' paint scraper works better for me for fairing/scraping the selvedge edge off of taped chines/joints -- also done before the epoxy gets hardened. Mine is an old 5" wide job with a big (flat) wooden handle - very easy to control, keep majority of the blade on the tape surface, the width actually helps to prevent gouging the adjacent ply.

[Steve W]

Great advice here. I'll add a few things. They make a piece of vynil trim that they sell at home depot dor about 15 bucks. I bougth a 16 foot piece, with future boats in mind. It's about 1 x 1 in cross section and makes a great flexible curve for wrapping around the nails when you draw the big curves.

 

If you are making the sailing version, and decide to leave the tiller so it can pivot up, make sure you use hard wood for the center piece of stock the tiller straddles. The plans don't spec the wood, but common sense should have told me this, but I had this nice spanish cedar, which is so pretty under epoxy and varnish!My first attempt came out beautifully. I snapped the silly spanish cedar piece the first time I sailed. The second rudder head took far less time!

 

One other mistake I made was pulling the center wires too tight on the bottom pannels after I went 3-D. I was really carefull in measurement, but after I tacked it together, I found a slight oil can in the bottom that I had to break out and reglue. I'm kind of a perfectionist and I knew it would bug me long term.

 

I found that studying the plans is really key. There was a suggested plan of attack, but no manual with step by step, so you need to study things carefully. I will say the plans are really good though.

 

Keep us posted.

 

I have a bunch of pictures of the process here: https://picasaweb.google.com/114007621203237706900

 

This forum is a great resource.

 

Take Care,

Steve

[bhanchett]

Thanks Steve.  Your photo blog is one of the one's I've marked as a favorite so I can refer to it often.  

 

One of my questions:  After attaching the sides to the bottom with that first foot of resin at the bow while it's all flat on the table.  After cure, when you start to go 3D, doesn't it start to bend at that joint at the bow?  It seems like there is a awful lot of stress there.

 

I agree about the forum and members being great resources.  I glad I started asking questions before I started my build and got into trouble.

 

Bill

[Steve W]

The two "halves" are wired togeter at the bow and then unfolded. It definately puts a bit of stress, but I followed the instructions and had no problems. It made me nrevouse, but was kind of uneventful. There is a picture with my boys in front of it who were thinking we'd be boating in a week.....little did they know that was the easy part. I had read of a few failures, so as a precaution I put a couple of hot wet wash cloths on both sides of the joints to boost the moisture content of the wood, but I'm not sure it was neccesary. I did use very good Okume ply.  

 

One other tip. I noticed that all the experienced builders seem to have many things being worked on at once. I like a linear project, but I can see the wisdom of multiple simultaneous items. I built the hull completely first, failing to realize that the spars, rudder and centerboad reperesent quite a bit of time. If I had to do it again, I'd have done a few of these pieces ahead of time for a few reasons. When you mix epoxy, it take awhile until you consistantly always mix the right amount. If you have a few things that need gluing, you can always use the extra.

 

 

Take Care,

Steve

[hokeyhydro]

Yes, that joint at the bow is stressed when going 3D. Glass on both sides, of course, and one suggestion from Graham is to drywall screw a small scrap ply patch on both sides I seem to recall about 3" or 4" square) right where the panels split. This will keep the joint intact as some have been known to crack.

For those ugly tape edges I use a carbide scraper after the epoxy kicks but is still a bit "green". Shaves it right off. Carbide scrapers are not hard to find, got one from Lowes and another from a Mom & Pop hardware store in town.

[Garry]

Hi Bill,

 

It's a friendly bunch here with a lot of good ideas in the previous posts on this site. You'll also get quick responses here.

 

I've posted photos of my build and my cartopper ideas at http://www.pbase.com/onceagain/my_other_boats (Hint - I don't recommend the additional storage compartments like I built, just added weight.)

 

As for the stress point on the butterflys - drill a hole at the end of the split before unfolding. A clean hole will spread the stress instead of concentrating it at the point of the split. I also added wood pads on both sides with a bolt through the hole which MAY have helped.

 

The carbide scraper is a great tool, not just for tape edges but for any drips or runs BEFORE they get hard. Saves a lot of sanding.

 

I can also recommend the hardware kit from B&B.

 

Welcome to our madness.

Garry

[bhanchett]

All this response make me realize what a fantastic group ya'all are.  I'm really impressed.

 

Gary,  I already picked up some wheels at Harbor Freight.  They had some smaller diameter, large width wheels, pneumatic with plastic hubs (cheap) that should work well on sand.  Your axle assembly and topper lift assy. both are designs I'm looking forward to trying.  I've seen quite a few Krogen's and they all look very solid and smooth riding. Many happy miles to you.  We had a Nauticat 33 ketch when we were cruising but she is now out in Oregon and we're in Michigan out looking at the ice on Lake Huron today.  Poor state of affairs!  By the way, the only time we laid her on her side was down by New Bern when we were anchored out and a tornado went through.  They do get wind down there.

 

The idea of screwing a block to the initial butterfly joint sound great.  That was the only big worry  I had come up with so far. One big question for everyone.  Since epoxy is used on both inside and outside of the hull, is marine plywood (expensive and far away) required?

 

Thanks,

Bill

[Charlie Jones]

Hey Garry- Just connected as to who you are   I'm Charlie J, but the site wouldn't let me post that way anymore. Said I was already there.

 

RC Bill- you really need high quality wood to make the bends, particularly up at the bow. If you can't find Okume locally, I'd order some. Fir marine ply today just almost isn't worth buying.

[hokeyhydro]

Tehani/Charlie is absolutely right on the plywood. A nice, but pricey, sheet of Joubert Okume sweeps around those curves. I usually work with thin stuff like 4mm and even the cheaper (Chinese?) 4mm okume gives me grief when attempting to bend it. I use that for flat parts like bulkheads.