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sail colors


Guest Joe Nelson Oregon CS20 #3

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Guest Joe Nelson Oregon CS20 #3

Wondering what sail colors are available? I am most interested in the "Egyptian Cotton" (color not fabric). Kind or a tanish grey. Also what about "tanbark" . But some of the tanbark sails seem more red. I am painting blue hull and white deck with light grey cockpit. I dont want to end up with red, white and blue.

joe_nelson22@hotmail.com

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Guest Greg Luckett

Years ago I had a Lightening with Egyptian cotton sails. You are asking about the color and am not sure how that differs from normal white. I would like to locate some new Egyptian cotton sail material to make new sails. That material is dyable and use to come in different colors. What color do you have in mind?

luckettg@qtm.net

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Guest Paul J

Joe,

Egyptian dacron is a creamy color almost a tan with jush a hint of red in it. It is not at all grey. It will fade a bit over the years and develop a slight weathered look. Egyptian is also a little better in UV resistance. It also reflects less light so is easier on the eyes. Tanbark is a dark red/brown color that may look more red in some lights. It is slightly different in color depth depending on the sailcloth maker. But they are all very close.

If you put a swatch of tanbark next to one of red you will not think it is too red.

There are other colors of dacron available, but white is the most common color used for sails. Solid color sails are more in price also.

Hope this helps.

Paul J

paul@ultasail.com

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Guest Paul J

Greg,

I have looked around for a couple of years and have not been able to locate any egyptian cotton that would be suitable for making sails. If you ever find some let me know.

Paul J

paul@ultasail.com

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Guest Graham Byrnes

It depends on who makes it but Tanbark is on the red side. Challenge Sailcloth makes a cloth called Egyptian Cream Dacron / 1W70 that may be what you are looking for. It costs about 2X more than white and if you have it made, your sail maker will have to special order a small amount rather taking it off a standard white roll that he would have on the shelf. Also, Challenge states that the color fades in the sunlight.

Also, the color is similar to the old cotton sails - specifically made to suit older wooden/traditional boats for authenticity in view - but it is not made of "cotton" but is indeed dacron.

Lastly, since the fabric is special order - and is not always available in small quantities, you will need to plan ahead and allow longer to receive your sails from the sailmaker.

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Guest Paul J

Graham,

If you don't know I am a sail maker for small boats and I haunt some BBS's and Frank does not mind as I will gladly give info as I can.

As to Egyptian or even Tanbark ordering what you need for a sail order is not a problem. I only make sails out of Challenge Sailcloth and they will cut me what ever I need when ever I need it. And there is no price increase for a shorter than full roll. But the two materials are 2 1/2 times the cost of the same in white. And the edging tapes are a bit pricey, but I believe that you match the edging with the sail color. Don't like to see a color sail with white edging, makes my skin crawl.

I will say this if I where going to make sails for myself and was going to choose between the two I would go for the Egyptian. And yes it does fade a bit as do all colors [other than white of course] but as it fades it really starts to look better. Unlike some of the darker colors.

Well thats all. Let me know if I can be of any assistance I am glad to when I can.

Paul J

PS. In ways I wish it would start out looking a little faded. Kind of has that look to it if you know what I mean.

paul@ultasail.com

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Guest Joe Nelson Oregon CS20 #3

I too like both the tanbark and egyptian sails as they age and become less uniform in color.

I am leaning towards Egyptian with a tan colored deck and cream cockpit. Outside hull color dark blue.

In relation to cost...say the sails cost $600 in white. How much would the extra material cost jump the cost of a set of sails?

I would of course give Graham first priorety in providing sails to me. I need to wait and see if he is interested in going down this peticular path.

joe_nelson22@hotmail.com

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Guest Paul J

Ok cost difference between white and the two expensive ones, Tanbark and Egyptian. This is hard to say in one little line, as to say like $100.00 more. There are other things to consider here along with just the increase in material costs. There is the overall look of the sail.

Lets just say Tanbark here because it is the darker color. It should be sew with a thread that is close to the color of the material so that the panel seams don't stand out more than the should. This means a little more care in sewing which means a bit more time. Does that make the sail better built? No not really it makes it look better. Now as long as the sail is well designed and well made it does not matter what the stitching looks like as to being color matched. It's just a matter of the overall look of what will be a fairly expensive sail.

But just to give you an idea a $600.00 sail in white made in either of these two colors would cost any where between 25% to 40% or more all depending on the sail.I would say just off hand that a CS 20 set would be right near the 25% mark. But that could go up depending on details. But that's pretty close to the mark. I have not priced out the sails so I can't say for sure.

As to competing if I can help some one make a good decission on sails then I did what I was trying to do no matter who they buy from.

I hope this helps.

Paul J

paul@ultasail.com

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Guest Brent Sparks

While we are on the subject of sails, I was wondering about sail design features.

An earlier thread we discussed reefing systems...I like the reef the sail around the mast design using the 'mast wrench'. But this would make a conventional leech batten difficult to do. Would cutting the leech hollow eliminate the sail flutter? Other ideas?

I crew on a race boat that uses a tape drive genoa. I was wondering if this tape drive technology would produce a powerful sail that required no battens, of course at a little extra cost.

My thoughts are focused on the sails for a CS20, which I suppose are a little larger than a CS17 or BRS.

bljcatsparks@earthlink.net

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Guest Paul J

Brent,

On the sails as designed leech flutter should not be a problem or a concern until the sail becomes worn in. But a little leech line tension will solve most of the flutter. Now new sails will have no problem as they are stiff enough not to flutter. But if new sails are fluttering then it is more than likely a trim problem.

A slight hollow in the leech will also help down the road with leech flutter. And seeing as how the sails are a basic triangle this is easy to do. Talk to the sail maker you choose about that when you purchase sails for your boat.

Wow a tape drive genny. I have not seen one of those for a bit. Most people have gone to the radial cut for both mains and headsails for racing keel boats. I doubt that the technology would transfer down to a sprit boom sail very well and the cost would be more than a little as the materials for the sail change to much more expensive in nature. A nice cross cut dacron sail is still the choice for these type of sails. And more reasonable in cost.

There is a company in Florida who make the Sea Pearls that has a fuller roach set of sails available for their cat ketches using vertical battens so the sail can be wrapped or reefed around the mast as you have mentioned. I have only seen pictures of the sails and have never designed one so I can't say if it is worth the cost of the sails or not.

I would say that the best option to increase sail area on the cat ketch would be a light air reaching staysail. As designed I think the boats Graham has designed are nicely powered for most wind conditions they are designed to sail in. And the only need for more sail area would be in light air where most all boats can use the extra sail area.

Paul J

paul@ultasail.com

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Guest Brent Sparks CS20 #31

Paul thanks for your thoughts.

A sail without battens sounds good to me. I suppose that when it comes to trim the snotter position will have some say on leech tension. This is a new area for me, as I dont have prior experience with this type of sail.

bljcatsparks@earthlink.net

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Guest Graham Byrnes

There is 2" of hollow in the leech of the Core Sound sails which takes care of the leech flutter. Yes the mast is taller to make up for the lost roach area. I have sailed a CS 20 with roach and battens against a CS20 without roach, but the same sail area, and found very little difference in performance. I picked the right windshift on the first day and beat him and he did the same on the second day and beat me.

I use battens on the Princess because with the tabernacle you can't rotate the mast to wind up the sail and it allows a shorter mast for the same sail area which is important for trailing. I have not been impressed with vertical battens as the angle is so inefficient that it would not pay it's way.

The boat is designed for a mizzen staysail, I enjoy using it in light air on these boats, it adds another element to down-wind sailing.

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