cprinos Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 I beveled my keel batten, but I didn't try to get it to exactly match the bevel all the way through, I just got it 'close enough'. So it stil ended up being bedded in thickened epoxy, but less was needed than if I left the batten completely flat. The largest amount of bevel seemed to be required from around the temp mid-frame forward (the front of mine went to 1/4 inch or less). If you have the patience to get the exact bevel, go for it, you will save some epoxy. I found this to be one of the more stressful parts so far honestly, because it's a large glue up of an important structural piece, but you really have no idea how well the epoxy is bedded underneath the batten, or if there are air pockets etc. At least with fillets & taping you can see exactly what you are doing and can correct if needed. I'm sure there's plenty of margin for error however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokeyhydro Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 If epoxy was squeezed out you had plenty. You did fine - I know I wouldn't get all fussy about a perfect bevel. I would plane some, decide it was close enough and go for the gobs of spooge method to lock it down. After reviewing a couple B&B plans I figure there's a large margin of error AKA safety factor in the design and scantlings. Take a breath and move on with confidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Brander Posted December 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Thanks to all, It is good to kn bow that we all go through these stages of when is enough enough! I bevel what looks to be close to a decent bevel with my friend yesterday. When he is available again I'll ex poxy it in place and move on from there. I think the only place it will need a lot of goop is from where the plywood hull bottom transitions from 3/8 to 1/4 which of course leaves a larger gap between batten and hull - at least mine did. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Brander Posted December 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Hi All, I feel really dumb, but here goes: My temporary frame must have shifted, but I’m getting an angle at the center bulkhead a degree and a half greater than the angle of the temp frame. (11 ½ vs 10) which seems to be carried forward to the forward bulkhead. I already put the keel batten in, etc. when I noticed this problem. Anything serious? My beam measurement is 5 feet 6 ¾ vs. what stated on the website - 5 feet 10 inches. Again, anything serious? Don’t know what I can do about either, but I’m so used to everything being precise from building furniture, so I figured I’d get the perspective of some more experienced boat builders. I learning that boat building requires a somewhat different expertise than run if the mill woodworking. But I seem to be learning the hard way! Thanks, Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmays Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Hi Neil, Sounds like great progress- I'm following along, not going to add much to the build stage as I'm a good rigger/repairer but not really a carpenter/builder. I'm now since the new year started (Happy New Year) going to get serious about the new mast and sail plan for #132, Mermaid, while at the same time take some Westlawn Classes and try to keep my wife happy by paddling more in little plastic kayaks (a good winter endeavor in eastern NC). Hope you're progressing at your anticipated pace and pleased with the result. So far, no one has tried to talk me out of super charging the Mermaid- one boat builder friend is still trying to have me cut her in half and pushing her out to 19'- I must say it's an intriguing thought but not something I'll tackle this winter. One project at a time! Cheers. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisObee Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 My beam measurement is 5 feet 6 ¾ vs. what stated on the website - 5 feet 10 inches. Again, anything serious? As the center frame is 65 and change I'd say you were right on the money. Pay heed to the plans and don't let the website disctract you from your project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Brander Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 More Questions! I've got the seat sides in place and have filleted and fiber glassed the outside side. The instructions say I can now get into the boat and fillet and fiberglass the inside of the seat sides. But do I have to put a support in the middle of the boat first (currently I only have supports below the forward and aft bulkheads)? When you level the boat is it from the bow to the corner of the transom where it meets the hulll side or to the middle of the transom? I'll then be ready to put in the main mast support. I assume I go 17 1/2 inches aft from the bow and drop a plumb bob to the middle of the support less approximately 1/10 of an inch (for the rake) to determine the placement of the support? But when I do that I seem to be about 2 feet below the bottom of where the decking will be. The plans seem to indicate a length of approximately 21 inches? I assume you fillet and tape the seat tops to the inside of the hull? But do you also tape the seat tops to the set sides? As usual, thanks in advance for all your help. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisObee Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I'd say that minimally you need supports underneath all of the frames. You should level your boat according to the waterline. I would tape the seats to the hull and to the sides. I dont know where you are getting your 1/10th of an inch. The rake of the mast is going to move the center of the mast step more than an inch in to the bow. If you make the step pieces according to the plans and your boat is level reletive to the waterline your mast step when level should not fit far from its correct position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgossett Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I beveled my keel batten, but I didn't try to get it to exactly match the bevel all the way through, I just got it 'close enough'. So it stil ended up being bedded in thickened epoxy, but less was needed than if I left the batten completely flat. The largest amount of bevel seemed to be required from around the temp mid-frame forward (the front of mine went to 1/4 inch or less). If you have the patience to get the exact bevel, go for it, you will save some epoxy. I found this to be one of the more stressful parts so far honestly, because it's a large glue up of an important structural piece, but you really have no idea how well the epoxy is bedded underneath the batten, or if there are air pockets etc. At least with fillets & taping you can see exactly what you are doing and can correct if needed. I'm sure there's plenty of margin for error however. I did mine in stages, used slightly runnier epoxy, it would gravitate towards lowest point. Next day I did more, it took about 4 days to finish, but I felt comfident it completly filled in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Brander Posted January 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Thanks all for your help. ChrisObee, I agree and will glass the seat tops to the hull and probably also to the sides. I found the leveling instructions and verified that it is from the bow to the corner of the stern where it meets the hull – so that mystery is accounted for. It also shows waterline info based, of course, on a level boat. Where I got the 1/10 of an inch is the directions say that a 3 degree rake will produce an offset of 1 inch in 20 feet. If the main mast step is 2 feet below the decking, this is one 10th of the 20 feet so it should be 1/10 of an inch. Does that make sense to you? Thanks again, Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokeyhydro Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 1/10 for 2' makes sense to me based on 1" in 20', but . . . 1/10", like all tiny measures, is hard to get on the mark. Might want to try a long PVC pipe to adjust the step position. If a 7 1/2' pipe clears the ceiling than you got 3/8" at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Burritt Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 The 3 degree rake is 1 inch in 20 INCHES - not feet. as per DESIGNER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokeyhydro Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 The 3 degree rake is 1 inch in 20 INCHES - not feet. as per DESIGNER. RIGHT! Sez so on my plans for the CS-15 and CS-17. Guess I saw 20' in Neil's post and had massive brain flatulence. And I have used that measure when I built a scale model of the CS-15. Must. Learn. To. Read. With. Brain. In Gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Burritt Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Don't feel bad. I've done these before and I didn't catch the discrepancy until we got ready to cut the hole for a mast at boat class tonight. Hope Neil catches this before he steps his masts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgossett Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 The 3 degree rake is 1 inch in 20 INCHES - not feet. as per DESIGNER. Thanks John, I started reading the thread this morning and pulled out my plans just a little worried about my 1" in 20" offset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Brander Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I must learn to see with brain in gear! Thanks all, that would have been a terrible mistake. And while I've already made enough mistakes to know that I'm not building a perfect boat, this one would have been a real dousy. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Burritt Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 When you get ready to drill the hole, make sure the boat is in proper trim, both fore/aft & side to side. Your plans should tell you how much higher the stem should be above the stern. The trick is to get that set & secured so you can get in the boat to drill the hole without changing the angles. If possible, get a couple people to watch - one at the stern, the other at the side - to help you keep the drill properly aligned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Brander Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Can anybody tell my why it is recommendedto draw a 3 inch grid on the rudder? It may be obviuos, but not to me. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokeyhydro Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Can anybody tell my why it is recommendedto draw a 3 inch grid on the rudder? It may be obviuos, but not to me. Thanks So you can plot the rudder shape using the grid as a reference - see plan drawing to scale, copy intersection points on 3" grid, sketch in curves. I draw the 3" grid on a sheet of white poster board, sketch the rudder, cut, and use the poster board rudder as a pattern. Upon testing the rudder pattern on the cheek block today I discovered I had to move the rudder pivot 1" forward to get it all right. This was for a CS-15. My testing allowed me to fine tune the upper end rudder shape and mark relief lines since the rudder is 1 1/4" thick western red cedar strips, blade will be foiled and upper section relieved to 3/4" thick inside the cheek blocks. Tis a flaw in my building persona - I can't leave a perfect design alone, must fiddle with it. Graham would probably flog me . . . :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgossett Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 For getting angle right for masts I used a piece of cut off 2.5" aluminum from mast hanging(secured with clamp) from a clamped 2x4 across boat. Having a plastic angle finder from Lowe's and a pencil handy I checked the angle, also the aluminum was over 20" so with a straight ruler next to it and tape measure set the rake. Making the forward mast step was actually the hardest part put used the fiberglass tube hanging from hole in board then moved it around with cardboard until it was right. Cardboard was template for forward step. For the rudder it would be really nice to have a nice C&C cut one from Graham that is a perfect shape. It would be even better if it was prerouted out. On mine I just routed out part of the forward and bottom surface to insert a rope. The layers of fiberglass tape I had wore away after a couple (7 or 8) of groundings. For weight I used a rotary saw and carefully set the depth for not all the way through. Mix epoxy with a bunch of lead shot and pore in, did a massive area. After it was dry used thick filled to fill in, sanded and more filled to fill out small remaining depth. This weight is enough to keep rudder down but not quite enough to keep it tightly forward (cleat and rope for that). All these photos I did two days ago and just tested out today (I did get to go swimming with my kids in boat laughing at me). This photo is router setup with two 2x4's clamped in place to help hold rudder up as rolling, eventually after first past one came off so I could eyeball it as I went over again. To get rope to fit perfect I used a soldering iron to carefully cut away parts of each end to make it lay right. I used epoxy to seal, and after several hours used 5200 fast cure to hold rope in place with clamps pressing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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