fishing/motoring/sailing boat for cedar key fl

[Bob Reynierson]

Hello all,

It's spring and I've got new boat fever. I've been thinking of building or buying a boat and like the B&B BRS and CS models a lot. Not that I'm PLANNING on it, mind you. Actually I tried to buy Ken Potts' boat a while back. Did you take her with you Ken? I have been fishing the Cedar Key FL area out of kayaks for years. I also have a WWP 15. She's a great boat but a bit of a challenge for fishing due to the rigging.

The winds where I fish are often light and out of the South or West which is exactly the direction I usually need to go to get to my fishing spots. On the other hand the weather can snot up in a hurry, especially in the summer months. For those of you not familiar with the area it is very shallow with a few cuts and channels up to about 20' feet. I would use the boat mainly as a fishing boat. I don't want to get into a full-on power boat, though. I'm thinking motor out, fish, and sail back, with some recreational sailing during slack tide or when the fish aren't biting and there is enough wind.

Most of my fishing is within three miles of shore and there are nicely sized barrier islands near all of the fishing holes, so getting to land in a blow with a modest motor should be fairly easy. On the other hand I don't really trust motors and wouldn't be considering one at all if didn't take so long to get to my spots under sail or oar/paddle.

I talked to Graham Byrnes about this recently and he recommended the CS 17, but the CS 17 looks like a more complicated build than I would want to take on. At that time I was also considering something that would safely get me to Seahorse Reef which is about 7 miles offshore. Now I'm thinking those trips will be infrequent and I've got the P 15 to use for more adventuresome trips. I think the BRS looks to be about the best option for my purposes. One of the few things that puts me off about the B&B boats is the snotter. I've never used one and it looks like a bit of a chore to adjust. I'm of the set and forget persuasion whenever possible, and I don't want to add additional lines for the snotter as some have done. What do you think, BRS 15, BRS17, or one of the CS series? Any thoughts about the cat-ketch rig and snotter for such an application?

Once again, this is all just idle fancy at this point, so don't get in too much of a lather.

Thanks in advance for any input you may have,

Bob Reynierson

[MisterMoon]

You're way overthinking the snotter issue. I'm just sayin'.

[Bob Reynierson]

You're way overthinking the snotter issue. I'm just sayin'.

That's good because I really like the boats.

Thanks,

BR

[Gordy Hill]

I've sailed the Cedar Key area often in my CS17. Never had a motor on it. You'd be hard pressed to find a better boat for that area. Don't be intimidated. The CS17 is just a Spindrift with bigger parts. Be forewarned, however, once you have sailed the CS you'll cringe at the thought of sailing a sloop.

[Bob Reynierson]

I've sailed the Cedar Key area often in my CS17. Never had a motor on it. You'd be hard pressed to find a better boat for that area. Don't be intimidated. The CS17 is just a Spindrift with bigger parts. Be forewarned, however, once you have sailed the CS you'll cringe at the thought of sailing a sloop.

Thanks for the input Gordy. I read on the B&B site that you modified your boat for fishing.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

If you are a set it and forget it type just tension up the snotter and forget it.

If you were sailing next to me and I eased the snotter in light airs and pulled away form you, you might be tempted to ease it too.

It is a secondary control and the only downside to keeping it taught all the time is decreased performance in lighter airs. Other than that the boat will sail perfectly fine tensioned up all the time.

[Bob Reynierson]

If you are a set it and forget it type just tension up the snotter and forget it.

If you were sailing next to me and I eased the snotter in light airs and pulled away form you, you might be tempted to ease it too.

It is a secondary control and the only downside to keeping it taught all the time is decreased performance in lighter airs. Other than that the boat will sail perfectly fine tensioned up all the time.

Thanks Ray. I expect if I do build the boat I will be wanting to adjust the snotter. I would probably set it up with the least amount of rigging possible to keep the decks clear for fishing and make it easy to rig the sails on the water. Later I could add cockpit controls for the snotters. (Gotta love that term). It sounds like it would be pretty easy to set them for the wind speed an leave them. Fishing season winds are usually 10 knots or less and I would be sailing mostly downwind on the return trip. I'm guessing slack in the snotter would be the way to go in those conditions.

Have you ever built a BRS for sale? What do you think of the BRS 15 vs the BRS 17 for my uses? I'm leaning towards the 15 to keep the weight down so that I could tow the boat with my itty-bitty Honda Fit (after it's out of warranty of course).

Bob

[DISTELTK]

Thanks Ray. I expect if I do build the boat I will be wanting to adjust the snotter. I would probably set it up with the least amount of rigging possible to keep the decks clear for fishing and make it easy to rig the sails on the water. Later I could add cockpit controls for the snotters. (Gotta love that term). It sounds like it would be pretty easy to set them for the wind speed an leave them. Fishing season winds are usually 10 knots or less and I would be sailing mostly downwind on the return trip. I'm guessing slack in the snotter would be the way to go in those conditions.

Have you ever built a BRS for sale? What do you think of the BRS 15 vs the BRS 17 for my uses? I'm leaning towards the 15 to keep the weight down so that I could tow the boat with my itty-bitty Honda Fit (after it's out of warranty of course).

Bob

[DISTELTK]

I have a BRS 15 and it sails very well. However I find that it can get wet when the surface gets choppy. I have sailed in Charlotte Harbor on small boats and sometimes it gets a little rough. Not sure how much open water you will be using, 7 miles is a lot of open water. I think the CS would be dryer.

Set the snotter and let it be. As above the tightness will affect the light air performance. The BRS rows easier than the CS boats.

My oppinion

Tom D,

[hokeyhydro]

Honda doesn't want you to tow, but many folks have. Capacity numbers are all over the map from 80 lbs to 1500 lbs. That said, there isn't a whole bunch of weight difference between a 15 and 17. If you used fir ply, Meranti, or MDO on a 15 it would outweigh a 17 built with Okume. So build with Okume. And you could always drop a few bucks on an aluminum trailer since a standard galvanized rig might outweigh the boat! Or you could just buy a Dodge Dakota and be done with it - mine has towed a 5,000 lb rig from TN across the mountains to the coast of North Carolina - no prob. Even ran the A/C since it was a hot summer day.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

BRS has less deck structure. No side decks, no coaming, less foredeck. I can see easily saving about 80 lbs with eliminating that structure.

Definitely go Okoume for build for lower weight and maybe opt for all spruce dimension on stringers.

On flip side all that extra deck structure makes the boat far more suitable for use in less protected waters. When wind and waves are up the side decks foredeck and coaming keep out a lot of water from cockpit. And if the wind lays you over it gives youa measure of more heeling before water entry as well.

Graham originally designed the CS series specifically for Gulf of Mexico waters to give more protection and capability than the BRS series for this very reason

[Bob Reynierson]

BRS has less deck structure. No side decks, no coaming, less foredeck. I can see easily saving about 80 lbs with eliminating that structure.

Definitely go Okoume for build for lower weight and maybe opt for all spruce dimension on stringers.

On flip side all that extra deck structure makes the boat far more suitable for use in less protected waters. When wind and waves are up the side decks foredeck and coaming keep out a lot of water from cockpit. And if the wind lays you over it gives youa measure of more heeling before water entry as well.

Graham originally designed the CS series specifically for Gulf of Mexico waters to give more protection and capability than the BRS series for this very reason

Thanks for all of the input and advice, especailly about woods and weight.

Towing: Just got the Fit and got a letter from my dealer giving me the OK to tow my < 300# trailex trailer + two yaks. Won't be towing anything else until the car is out of warranty and definitely won't be buying a truck. By the time I actually get around to the build if ever the Fit will be out of warranty and paid for so who cares what Honda says. If I can get boat,trailer, passengers, and cargo within the total GVWR I'll tow with it. If not I'll have to beg to borrow my wife's Outback.

CS 17 vs BRS 17 vs BRS 15: The CS is beautiful and tempting. Maybe I'll come around, but it won't motor as well as the BRS. What I have discovered using the P 15 and various yaks is that I can get out on the water faster and to my fishing spots more quickly in the yaks, plus they're easier to fish from. The CS would probably only get me one or two more knots of speed than the P 15 with its two HP Honda, so I would do just as well to stick with the yaks. I'm guessing the BRS 17 will not yeild much more speed than the BRS 15 under power. Does anyone know? If not then lighter is better.

Seaworthiness: Although it would be tempting to take the BRS out to the reef I hope that I have had enough dicey experiences to have more sense. If I go with the BRS I'll take the P 15 if I decide to go out that far. In any case it would have to be under very favorable conditions with a minimal chance of T-storms. None of these boats is going to outrun a storm and I don't want to be the highest profile object for miles around in a T-storm.

Thanks again,

BR

Bob

[Dale Niemann]

Bob,

The weekend of May 6-8th this year is the biggest small boat event in Florida at Cedar Key. If you can make it over then, look me up. I will be there with 'Lively' my Core Sound 17 and I will be happy to give you a ride so you can see for yourself if it will fit your purposes. There will also probably be about 80 or so other boats for you to look at. Most owners will give you ride if you ask.

You might also consider building Graham's Marissa Eco 18 powerboat. I am building one now (very slowly it seems). I feel the same way you do about power and motors but if you fish I think the Marissa would be a great boat for you. Graham has it available as a kit which is the way I went. If you are concerned about safety offshore you could stick a 2HP on the transum for backup.

You might also consider Hugh Horton's 'Bufflehead' which is a sailing canoe or kayak. It is designed to sail unless there is no wind. I am sure there will be several of his boats at Cedar Key.

Dale

[Bob Reynierson]

Bob,

The weekend of May 6-8th this year is the biggest small boat event in Florida at Cedar Key. If you can make it over then, look me up. I will be there with 'Lively' my Core Sound 17 and I will be happy to give you a ride so you can see for yourself if it will fit your purposes. There will also probably be about 80 or so other boats for you to look at. Most owners will give you ride if you ask.

You might also consider building Graham's Marissa Eco 18 powerboat. I am building one now (very slowly it seems). I feel the same way you do about power and motors but if you fish I think the Marissa would be a great boat for you. Graham has it available as a kit which is the way I went. If you are concerned about safety offshore you could stick a 2HP on the transum for backup.

You might also consider Hugh Horton's 'Bufflehead' which is a sailing canoe or kayak. It is designed to sail unless there is no wind. I am sure there will be several of his boats at Cedar Key.

Dale

Hi Dale,

I've seen pics of your boat from the other small boat meets and have admired it. It looks like you did a beautiful job. I've looked at the Marissa as well as the runner up in the design competition Marissa won, but have ruled out a power boat for a variety of reasons. I have stumbled upon the small boat meet at CK several times but have never been there as a result of planning. The date always seems to slip by me. Maybe I'll make it over this year and take you up on your offer of a ride.

[Bob Reynierson]

Hello All,

Thanks again for all of the input. I am pretty sure at this point that I will build or buy a BRS. It's just a matter of putting aside funds and working out a place to buid and store the boat. I will try and hook up with Dale at the CK small boat festival to check out his CS 17 before completely ruling it out. The only other decision to make for now is whether to go for BRS 15 or a BRS 17. I read on the thread that someone got 17 MPH or so with a BRS 17 with a 15 HP motor. It sounded like that may have been a bit too much speed for the boat. I will continue to monitor the forum and ultimately will contact the designer to get information about practical speed under power for the BRS 17. It seems pretty clear 10 MPH is realistic for the BRS 15 under power in good conditions. Other than speed under power it's a matter of weight vs. freeboard and room. I believe I read that the BRS 17 has more freeboard than the BRS 15.

Once again, many thanks,

Bob

[BARRYFOY]

Bob--

As a former owner of a West Wight Potter 15, I can't help but add my belated reply. I am currently building a B&B Spindrift 11 nesting dinghy, for use when traveling (it will fit under the cap of my truck, when I am towing my travel trailer.) But my next boat will be a B&B Bay River Skiff 15. I already have the plans and the okoume plywood for it. And the Cedar Key area will be one of my main sailing areas. The BRS 15 seems such a logical choice. I have every intention of towing it there with my Prius!

Barry

[Ken_Potts]

It's spring and I've got new boat fever. I've been thinking of building or buying a boat and like the B&B BRS and CS models a lot. Not that I'm PLANNING on it, mind you. Actually I tried to buy Ken Potts' boat a while back. Did you take her with you Ken? I have been fishing the Cedar Key FL area out of kayaks for years. I also have a WWP 15. She's a great boat but a bit of a challenge for fishing due to the rigging.

Hi Rob,

I think I lost your email address in the midst of the move (sorry about that). My boat ended up staying in NC with a friend. It's being sailed regularly and enjoyed immensely

Try really hard to take Dale up on his offer of a sail - You won't regret it. I fished/sailed/motored mine around a bunch and it really is a great boat for doing a whole lot of different stuff.

Don't worry too much about trailer weight, either. I towed that boat on its steel trailer all over the place at high speeds with my 2.5 liter 4-banger. The biggest strain on the tow vehicle was aerodynamic - If you tow it with the Honda you may (or may not) want to refrain from going 75 mph, but 45mph doesn't require much power.

If you decide to go with the BRS I'm sure you'll love it but check out the CS also if you get the chance.

[Bob Reynierson]

Bob--

As a former owner of a West Wight Potter 15, I can't help but add my belated reply. I am currently building a B&B Spindrift 11 nesting dinghy, for use when traveling (it will fit under the cap of my truck, when I am towing my travel trailer.) But my next boat will be a B&B Bay River Skiff 15. I already have the plans and the okoume plywood for it. And the Cedar Key area will be one of my main sailing areas. The BRS 15 seems such a logical choice. I have every intention of towing it there with my Prius!

Barry

Hello Barry,

Where are you located? I am over at CK frequently in my kayaks, maybe I'll see you there. I'm very excited about your BRS 15 build. Please keep me posted about it. How did you decide on it vs. the BRS 17 and CS series?

Bob

[Bob Reynierson]

Hi Rob,

I think I lost your email address in the midst of the move (sorry about that). My boat ended up staying in NC with a friend. It's being sailed regularly and enjoyed immensely

Try really hard to take Dale up on his offer of a sail - You won't regret it. I fished/sailed/motored mine around a bunch and it really is a great boat for doing a whole lot of different stuff.

Don't worry too much about trailer weight, either. I towed that boat on its steel trailer all over the place at high speeds with my 2.5 liter 4-banger. The biggest strain on the tow vehicle was aerodynamic - If you tow it with the Honda you may (or may not) want to refrain from going 75 mph, but 45mph doesn't require much power.

If you decide to go with the BRS I'm sure you'll love it but check out the CS also if you get the chance.

Hello Ken,

Great to hear from you and glad to hear your boat found a home! I tried to send you an e-mail through the forum but for some reason couldn't. I thought your original asking price was really a good deal and if I had the $ at the time I definitely would have offered more. I am planning to take Dale up on his offer and will send him an e-mail. I will probably stick with the BRS due to it's better performance under power. I have been wondering how people get the speed out of the BRS series that they are reporting. I guesstimated the hull speed to be about 4-5 knots. I suppose they must be getting their boats up on a partial plane.

Cheers,

Bob

[BARRYFOY]

Hello Barry,

Where are you located? I am over at CK frequently in my kayaks, maybe I'll see you there. I'm very excited about your BRS 15 build. Please keep me posted about it. How did you decide on it vs. the BRS 17 and CS series?

Bob

Bob-

I am in Citrus Springs. Will you be at the CK boating bash in May? The longest boat I can comfortably build in my garage, and then store there on a trailer, is 15-16 feet. Plus, years of sailing the Chesapeake Bay in my Potter 15 gives me confidence in a good boat that size. I ordered study plans for both the BRS 15 and CS 15. I also looked closely at Karl Stambaugh's Bay Skiff 15, and the Goat Island skiff. I finally went with the BRS 15 for relative simplicity of build, lightness, and flexibility of use. I plan to have my Spindrift dinghy done in time to take up to Woodenboat School this summer, and then will start the BRS when I return. You are most welcome to come by and help out!

Barry