First sail on my CS17

[MisterMoon]

I just got in from taking my new to me CS17 PLUFF MUD out for our first sail. Conditions were pretty good, about 10-12 knots from the NW.

First tried a run under power only. My boat has a too large 6HP outboard. I really expected more speed under power, but only saw about 6 knots before my GPS died.

We set full main and mizzen while I tried to familarize myself with the boat. This was my first experience with cat ketch, so I was taking it easy. I'd read to always ease the main first if you are overpowered and this proved to work very well. Playing main upwind really seemed to pay dividends. Ease the main in a puff and the boat flattens out and just keeps on driving to windward. Nice. No GPS, but she seemed fast enough.

Found a couple of issues with my boat. First is the centerboard vibrates like crazy above about 5 knots so. THe vibration is so bad, it feels like a lot of drag is being created and slows the boat down. Hopefully a pass or two with block planeo n trailing edge of the CB will fix this.

The other issue is the snotters. I don't think mine are rigged correctly. There's a lot of friction and chafe there and I don't feel good about them at all.

Other things that need fixing is the non-standard rigging on the mizzen sheet and replace the all lines but the sheets. Everything else is just junk.

I really like the boat, though. SHe's very easy to sail and I think we're going to have a lot fun.

[hokeyhydro]

The centerboard should be foiled, as in NACA airfoil shape. I prefer 0012 for rudders and boards. Vibration can be caused by a slab side board, as in a flat board with just a lick or two with a plane to round off edges. That is not a good shape. The leading edge should be round like your favorite finger. Maximum thickness about 40% back, and going to the trailing edge the board should have straight lines aft to the trailing edge which should be SQUARED, not rounded off. True, a 1/8" to 1/4" square edge on the TE is the norm.

I suspect your board was not shaped. If covered with glass cloth, a heat gun will soften the epoxy and you can peel it off to shape the board, than get 6 oz cloth and sheath it when you're done making wood slivers.

Graham, The Designer, sez: if the board clearance in the trunk is less than 1/16" it will bind, and if more than 1/8" it will be sloppy. Check your trunk clearance as well. While refinishing the centerboard you can adjust the thickness.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

If the board is glassed, a sharp block plane will get it off really quickly too.

Of course it does dull the blade quicker than wood will.

[hokeyhydro]

If the board is glassed, a sharp block plane will get it off really quickly too.

Of course it does dull the blade quicker than wood will.

True, and when planing glass I always seem to get a few FG splinters in my fingers, but then my workshop klutz status is well established.

[PAR]

NACA foil shapes aren't necessary on a CS-17 centerboard and if you had two identical CS-17's side by side, one with 0012 sections and the other with slab sided sections, you'd wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I also disagree with the 40% reference to the maximum thickness location, when clearly a "oo" series would prefer a 30% location.

Mister Moon, don't get discouraged, your buzzing or vibration is most likely the gap on either side of the board. This is an easy fix and there are more then one. The quick way is to install a slot flap. Take a piece of sail cloth, a little wider then the width and a little longer then the length of the slot and glue it to the hull so it covers the slot. Next using a straight edge, cut it down the middle. This will form a reasonable gasket around the board as it's deployed and will likely cure the vibration issues you have. In time, especially if beached often, this fabric will wear out. Just grind it off with an abrasive wheel and glue on a new one. Dinghy racers around the world, have used this same technique for as long as I've been alive.

If you do elect to pull the board and need to remove the sheathing, a power plane makes very fast work of it, as does a number of tools, such as a 7" buffer/grinder with a 16 or 24 grit disk or a belt sander with a 24 grit hide.

[MisterMoon]

I'm hoping the CB vibration is just a case of the trailing edge either too sharp or just rounded off. I'll keep the gasket idea in mind however. I've got some nice hypalon fabric that woud be perfect for this application provided I can figure out the correct glue to use that will stick to both the fabric and the hull. That could be a little tricky.

Getting the board out with the boat on the trailer is a bit of a pain, any advice?

[Tom Lathrop]

I'm hoping the CB vibration is just a case of the trailing edge either too sharp or just rounded off. I'll keep the gasket idea in mind however. I've got some nice hypalon fabric that woud be perfect for this application provided I can figure out the correct glue to use that will stick to both the fabric and the hull. That could be a little tricky.

Getting the board out with the boat on the trailer is a bit of a pain, any advice?

My favorite method of lifting boats is with a come-along. With either a CS or Lapwing, I place a sawhorse with carpet on top under the stern and lift the bow with a come-along high enough to pull the trailer out. With our 24 foot powerboat, I use four come-alongs and web straps. Best method I've found that only needs one person to do it.

Never been able to trace a vibrating CB to slop in the trunk. Shape of the trailing edge is a factor but unpredictable. Vibration is usually worse sailing offwind when the CB is not loaded on one side. Vibration can be cured by either tuning it out or damping it out. Both require some knowledge of simple harmonic motion unless you are just lucky or have experience with particular cures.

[MisterMoon]

My favorite method of lifting boats is with a come-along. With either a CS or Lapwing, I place a sawhorse with carpet on top under the stern and lift the bow with a come-along high enough to pull the trailer out. With our 24 foot powerboat, I use four come-alongs and web straps. Best method I've found that only needs one person to do it.

Never been able to trace a vibrating CB to slop in the trunk. Shape of the trailing edge is a factor but unpredictable. Vibration is usually worse sailing offwind when the CB is not loaded on one side. Vibration can be cured by either tuning it out or damping it out. Both require some knowledge of simple harmonic motion unless you are just lucky or have experience with particular cures.

In my case the vibration is worse upwind than down. Because of this, I think it's a vortex shedding phenonemon. The top of the board wasn't visibly moving when sailing, so I don't think it's slop in the trunk.

[John Turpin]

My favorite method of lifting boats is with a come-along. With either a CS or Lapwing, I place a sawhorse with carpet on top under the stern and lift the bow with a come-along high enough to pull the trailer out. With our 24 foot powerboat, I use four come-alongs and web straps. Best method I've found that only needs one person to do it.

I had to find and fix a centerboard trunk leak over the winter and had to approach it from under the boat. I didn't need to remove the board, but could have easily. After I emptied all of the heavy bits and pieces out of the boat, I used ratchet web straps and saw horses. With me lifting the bow, the kiddos would ratchet away. After a foot or so of lift, we'd move to the stern and do it again. Ten minutes later, the boat was several feet of the floor. The straps attached to strong pad-eyes sunk into rafters with long screws. Tall saw horses supported the boat at all times, except when the trailer was being rolled under it. The boat did fine up there, but I was a nervous wreck the whole time.

[Peter HK]

I lift mine easily, single handed, with two handy billies (block and tackle systems) manufactured from bits left over from previous boats. One is 3 purchase, the other 4 purchase. I just attach both, lift one end, then the other and move the trailer out.

Cheers

Peter HK

[MisterMoon]

I lift mine easily, single handed, with two handy billies (block and tackle systems) manufactured from bits left over from previous boats. One is 3 purchase, the other 4 purchase. I just attach both, lift one end, then the other and move the trailer out.

Cheers

Peter HK

Thanks for all the ideas.

Your boat is almost a carbon copy of mine. Do you find that your motor mount keeps the tilted up motor out of the way of the mizzen sheets?

My boat has the OB mounted on the transom which gets in the way of the as designed mizzen sheeting arrangement. The builder of my boat came up with an alternative system that frankly sucks. I want to go back to the as-designed rigging but I've got to get the motor out of the way first.

[Peter HK]

Do you find that your motor mount keeps the tilted up motor out of the way of the mizzen sheets?

Yes it does that very effectively, especially if you put the mount down a little (it has 4 positions) as this moves the motor further aft while still keeping it clear of the water.

Cheers

Peter HK

[Tom Lathrop]

I had to find and fix a centerboard trunk leak over the winter and had to approach it from under the boat. I didn't need to remove the board, but could have easily. After I emptied all of the heavy bits and pieces out of the boat, I used ratchet web straps and saw horses. With me lifting the bow, the kiddos would ratchet away. After a foot or so of lift, we'd move to the stern and do it again. Ten minutes later, the boat was several feet of the floor. The straps attached to strong pad-eyes sunk into rafters with long screws. Tall saw horses supported the boat at all times, except when the trailer was being rolled under it. The boat did fine up there, but I was a nervous wreck the whole time.

John,

I might have a few tremors using those little web ratchets too. Its too easy to miss a step and range is not great. I use a lot of come-alongs in my shop to lift machinery up when preparing for hurricanes so there are at least five of them hanging around. I lifted so many boats off trailers over the years that I just don't worry about it anymore. Heaviest boat lifted so far was a 26' sailboat of about 5000 lbs. I do add vertical supports under the roof collar beams when lifting a heavy boat inside. The Bluejacket 24 is about 2400 lbs when I lift it with the com-alongs.

When I added lead to Lapwing's CB, I just lifted the boat under the deck using a sawhorse and a handy billy.

If the vibration is bad upwind, it is most certainly caused by vortex shedding. How to fix it is trial and trial again. Lots of theories but no one fix ever cures all. In any case, the problem is likely to be near the tip. Before doing any extensive work on the board, I would try adding something on one side near the trailing edge. Try taping a 6" long piece of string parallel to and just forward of the edge. Might disrupt the vortex and lead to a solution.

As for the perfect cross section for a centerboard, I've seen too many races won by boats using what would be called poor shapes to believe that it is a critical item. Using your head and going the right way is far more important than any single item like foil shape. Personally, I do not understand hauling an outboard motor on these small boat transoms, but I guess that is just my hangup. There have been more motors on small sailboats on this forum than I've seen in almost 50 years of sailing.

[MisterMoon]

If the vibration is bad upwind, it is most certainly caused by vortex shedding. How to fix it is trial and trial again. Lots of theories but no one fix ever cures all. In any case, the problem is likely to be near the tip. Before doing any extensive work on the board, I would try adding something on one side near the trailing edge. Try taping a 6" long piece of string parallel to and just forward of the edge. Might disrupt the vortex and lead to a solution.

As for the perfect cross section for a centerboard, I've seen too many races won by boats using what would be called poor shapes to believe that it is a critical item. Using your head and going the right way is far more important than any single item like foil shape. Personally, I do not understand hauling an outboard motor on these small boat transoms, but I guess that is just my hangup. There have been more motors on small sailboats on this forum than I've seen in almost 50 years of sailing.

I appreciate the tips, Tom. I'll be working on it over the next couple of weeks.

Our mutual friend Oyster warned me I should expect to get beat up on this forum about having a motor on my boat. LOL. While it was nice to have the motor yesterday, I found myself thinking I could do without all the weight and complications of the damn thing! I may change my mind on the some stinking hot variable light air day, but there's certainly no reason to have one a boat like this that sails so well if you've got any wind at all.

My objective for this boat is and remains another Everglades Challenge bid. No motors on that trip to be sure!

I still think Oyster would be a good companion for the EC, but alas I can't talk him into it!

(Now, how long before my phone starts ringing so Mr. Hard Shell can tell me I'm crazy? )

[Peter HK]

There have been more motors on small sailboats on this forum than I've seen in almost 50 years of sailing.

Did they have outboard motors 50 years ago?

I think the reason for this is the advertised nature of the Coresounds in particular- as dinghy cruising boats with a good turn of speed. If sailing in a bay is what you want to do, perhaps with an occasional race, then get a Laser or something similar. The reason to build a Coresound is the potential to go further, camp overnight, cruise longer distances, spend a week or two, explore rivers, get to calm anchorages up the river that larger boats can't access. There are instructions about boom tents/canopies/bunks and some have posted their camping/cruising adventures. While for most this remains a dream, it is the potential that has its own rewards. Much of this activity requires, or at least is very much better, with a motor.

An example from where I live is camping on the Noosa river. You can launch on Lake Cootharaba and have a nice sail to the river entrance, but thereafter to the first campsite is upstream (half to one knot adverse current) and at times so narrow, with overhanging branches, that rowing is impossible. A motor makes it an easy day. Paddling, rowing, wading would be a real pain.

They're not just sailing boats- they're cruising boats.

Cheers

Peter HK

[Tom Lathrop]

Peter,

I am not a good choice to rant against outboards. In fact, I really appreciate and like them. Will not even hide one inside to make others think the boat is an inboard. An outboard is a very honest apparatus that has earned respect. I do think everyone should be allowed to do their own thing without being bugged by others not affected by whatever they choose to do. My problem with them on a small sailboat is a personal one and not meant to look down on anyone else.

On the other hand, I suspect that my old BRS15 LOON is, by far, the most traveled and longest cruised such B&B boat out there. It has never had a motor on the transom except when being used as a motorboat. I understand why a motor is considered, especially by beginning sailors. Having come from the motoring world, I had the same thoughts myself with my first sailboat. There have been times when a small kicker would have been much appreciated but, then that passed and no motor was ever bolted on. I have seven outboards from 2 1/2hp to 50hp and most of them run. The 2 1/2hp one is 65 years old and would still run If I gave it a good chance.

I guess my main thing is that I do not want a beginning sailor to think that a motor is a priority on small sailboats like the CS and BRS.

[ChrisObee]

Did they have outboard motors 50 years ago?

50 years ago is not really that long ago....

http://www.britishseagull.co.uk/history.php

[Oyster]

You are asking me to go with you while you readily admit you don't know how to sail the boat. Okay now I understand. I guess since I have perfected the outboard, you will probably be using me for pulling the lines on the iron jib.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Personally, I do not understand hauling an outboard motor on these small boat transoms, but I guess that is just my hangup. There have been more motors on small sailboats on this forum than I've seen in almost 50 years of sailing.

Pantywaist syndrome??

[Oyster]

The only opinions that makes a difference and gets my attention are the ones backed up with dollars. The rest of the time I subscribe to the notion I will do it my way.

Engines on sailboats are in most cases ugly, but a necessary evil when you want to extend your boating season in diverse areas and times when you do not have the advantage of other hotair around you. LOL!