Jump to content

CS17 extended camp cruise question


High Altitude

Recommended Posts

Hi guys,

I am thinking about building a CS17, going up to Seattle, dropping her in the water and heading NW until it is time to turn around and travel back.

I figure about 2 months time for the trip. I have no idea how far I would get but that doesn't really matter much.

I would add a fabric dodger/boom tent setup, but other than that I want to keep the boat mostly to plan, simple etc....

Do you think the CS17 would be a good design and capable for the waters/trip?

Sean

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Lots of fast-moving currents in that corner of the world.  I'd worry about that.  Board members that regularly sail in those areas would have a better perspective.  Your adventure sounds wonderful, though.

There are definitely some passages that have fast moving water depending on the time of the day.

No matter how big your sailboat is, if it can't go faster than the current (even under power), you have picked the wrong time of the day to go through.

You must have up to date info on tides/currents and know how to use it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B3sd0XRFBE?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have not sailed those waters.

In the waters I have sailed, I have never felt like the CS17 was not up to the challenge, whether I've set sail in 23knots plus or had a storm sneak up on me.  Having said that, the longest trip I've taken on my CS17 is 6 days and if I was going to build a boat for a 2 month coastal cruise it would be an EC22.  The Princess or Belhaven would be good, too, but the EC22 would be my first choice (though I'm used to shallow waters here in NC).

The EC22 is certainly as fast as anything you might want in regard to outsailing currents, but with 2 months to play with I'd just wait for a favorable tide - We're talking about some serious kick-back time here, there's a time to sail and a time to fish :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot to say - I think the biggest challenge in a 2 month trip is the accommodation, not the ability of a boat to sail in rough stuff.  I'd rather have a nice dry cabin to stretch out with a book in while waiting out the bad stuff than try to live on an open boat in nice weather even if it will sail through hurricanes (who wants to do that?) Given that the EC22 has a little cabin on it and it still will sail the pants off many an open boat (like my CS17) I just think it's a winning combination.

Everyone's different, though so your mileage may vary.  Please keep us all in the loop on your boat and your voyage - It sounds like the stuff dreams are made of :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot to say - I think the biggest challenge in a 2 month trip is the accommodation, not the ability of a boat to sail in rough stuff.  I'd rather have a nice dry cabin to stretch out with a book in while waiting out the bad stuff than try to live on an open boat in nice weather even if it will sail through hurricanes (who wants to do that?) Given that the EC22 has a little cabin on it and it still will sail the pants off many an open boat (like my CS17) I just think it's a winning combination.

Everyone's different, though so your mileage may vary.  Please keep us all in the loop on your boat and your voyage - It sounds like the stuff dreams are made of :)

I am not too  (of course some) worried about not having a permanent cabin. My adventure for next summer is to backpack the Colorado Trail (500 miles from outside of Denver to Durango). I have a ton of experience backpacking. When I backpack I only take a tarp, no tent, it actually works better overall. When raining there is no waiting it out (unless no other choice), you wear the proper clothes and march on.

I know it is going to be different traveling by boat but I don't think a permanent cabin is needed, but I don't have the experience yet to back it up. I am thinking that with the bench storage, dry bags and a dodger I should be OK. Even if everything is wet and raining when stopping for the night it shouldn't be much different than when I backpack. You setup the tarp (dodger/boom tent) first to prevent further rain from coming down on you. Then you have an environment underneath with no more rain to get out of your wet clothes and get dry stuff out of your pack (bench storage). You use a dry ground sheet over the ground (sleeping platform) so that you can lay down on something dry. I could also bring a bivy sack to further protect my sleeping bag.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  It sounds like you're fully aware of the potential discomfort of an open boat.  Given that, I think the CS17 is a great choice.  No matter which boat you choose, keep us updated!

  If you're used to backpacking you'll be absolutely delighted by the amount of stuff you'll be able to carry  :cool:  The trips I've taken on my CS17 are much more akin to car camping than backpacking (sleeping on the beach in a spacious tent, chairs, too much food, etc.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As they say in the helicopter industry, the weakest part of the machine is the nut holding the cyclic.  To put it into sailing terms, it would be the nut holding the tiller...  :smile:

In other words, the limitations of the skipper usually exceed the limitations of the boat.  There are some fast tidal currents there, but timing to transit passes at slack is simple with adequate planning and tables.  Some areas like Juan de Fuca have current all the time, and a solid understanding of the effects of wind over current is critical.  20 knots over a 2 knot current can produce pretty stacked seas which would be unpleasant for any vessel.  Fishing vessels have floundered at the mouth of the Fraser River on Georgia Strait with 25 knots of onshore wind.

That all said, Puget Sound, San Juan Islands and the Gulf Islands are a beautiful sailing area that could easily keep someone occupied for months.  There are excellent publications for each area, chart packages, and sailing guides that can keep even the most inexperienced out of trouble.  Pick up a copy of Wagoners Cruising Guide to the Pacific Northwest for some excellent armchair sailing and let your dreams begin!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sean,

I'm a Seattle native and have been sailing a CS17 in Puget Sound for about 2 years now.  There are several thoughts that come to mind regarding your plan.

1.  Our dryest months of August and September have a lot of calm days.  You will need the staysail, and even then you'll have days where you won't make much distance.  Are you going to carry a motor?

2.  There are major shipping lanes running up and down the length of the sound.  Lots of container ships moving at 20 knots.  I sail without a motor and cross the shipping lanes like a dog crossing the freeway.

3.  There is a string of campsites called the Washington Water Trails that are reserved for "non-motorized, beachable" craft, ie kayaks.  I've never figured out if a CS17 qualifies as "beachable", but they are probably an option. Lots of marinas too of course.

4.  You can't dump human waste into the sound.

5.  Rain. Outside of August and September we often get a slow steady drizzle that will not let you dry out for days at a time. I think you'll have to go ashore and dry out every once in a while.

6.  Water temps in the 50's year round.  I wear a sailing dry suit when the wind is up.

7.  I'm comfortable in Puget Sound in a CS17 during decent weather, but never in the Straights of Juan De Fuca. I wouldn't go west of Port Townsend.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. I am planning on taking an OB.

4. I have looked into this and I think the best way to go is with Wag Bags. Costs could add up but I believe easier to deal with compared to a porta potti.

5. The more people I talk to the more I am hearing that I really need a boat with a cabin. It is starting to make me second guess my choice and I am looking at other designs including Belhaven and others like it.

No final decisions made yet.

Thank you for your comments.

Sean,

I'm a Seattle native and have been sailing a CS17 in Puget Sound for about 2 years now.  There are several thoughts that come to mind regarding your plan.

1.  Our dryest months of August and September have a lot of calm days.  You will need the staysail, and even then you'll have days where you won't make much distance.  Are you going to carry a motor?

2.  There are major shipping lanes running up and down the length of the sound.  Lots of container ships moving at 20 knots.  I sail without a motor and cross the shipping lanes like a dog crossing the freeway.

3.  There is a string of campsites called the Washington Water Trails that are reserved for "non-motorized, beachable" craft, ie kayaks.  I've never figured out if a CS17 qualifies as "beachable", but they are probably an option. Lots of marinas too of course.

4.  You can't dump human waste into the sound.

5.  Rain. Outside of August and September we often get a slow steady drizzle that will not let you dry out for days at a time. I think you'll have to go ashore and dry out every once in a while.

6.  Water temps in the 50's year round.  I wear a sailing dry suit when the wind is up.

7.  I'm comfortable in Puget Sound in a CS17 during decent weather, but never in the Straights of Juan De Fuca. I wouldn't go west of Port Townsend.     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

High Altitude, there are two valid sides to this discussion.  If your dream is to build a boat, choose a plan that will challenge you, with lines and complexity that appeals to you and yet still fit within your ability and resources.  If your dream is to get out on the water, build something that will get you there within your time frame.  Any discussion with sailors will bring up a myriad of features that you need for safety and/or necessity - but take the advice of Lin and Larry Pardey, well known for their mantra, "Go small, go simple, go now."  A boat project can easily become overwhelming, and many take longer than originally planned, delaying the departure date indefinitely.  Many, many people have done extended voyages in boats a lot smaller than a CS17 - in the fall of 2004 we were in Bell Harbor, downtown Seattle when we met a gentleman one evening tie up to the floats in an overburdened canoe.  He was passing through heading north, and his smile left us with no doubt that he was one of the happiest individuals in the harbor.  We are currently in Alaska house sitting for friends met on the water that have rowed extensively up the west coast - Seattle to Skagway, the Yukon River from Whitehorse to Nome, the Mackenzie from Hay River to Kotzebue, as well as the coast of Labrador, Norway, Svalbard and parts of Greenland (Rowing to Latitude, Jill Fredston).  If your intent is to spend two months on the water in one of the prettiest areas of the world, :lol:any vessel will do and will provide you with an unbelievable experience you will cherish.  If the CS17 is the one that catches your eye and it fits your ability and time frame, then believe in yourself and I'll be cheering you on.  Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a custom Bimini with sides made. With it up I could sit up comfrortably on the seat and cook on the forward end of the seat. With the floor boards up there was a 5'6" by 8' sleeping area. The huge windows opened to screen and the forward screen opened as well so I could tend the anchor. It took about five minutes to set up. It was so nice I decided to sell the boat! My next boat will have a cabin. I couldn't sail with the  top up and here in Florida we can almost count on a shower or two during the day. It would be nice to have a place where at least the person not sailing could duck in, not to mention a place for one's after-lunch nap.

post-5-129497706461_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gordy in nasty wet weather I have let the tiller pilot have her and went below. For as much as four hours, just keeping a watch out through the front port and when I would make a course change. But I am, :( getting old and soft.  :(

In heavy seas ( small craft advisory ) like I had on Pamlico sound last time out I couldn't do that. I got real wet from spray coming all the way over the cabin. ( need a Dodger ) So I guess that's just part of it.

Scott

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The more people I talk to the more I am hearing that I really need a boat with a cabin. It is starting to make me second guess my choice and I am looking at other designs including Belhaven and others like it.

Well, a cabin can be very nice because it affords a quick, dry place to lay down and means less time making/breaking camp each day on a long trip. It also means you can have a few more amenities out, such as a laptop or other things you wouldn't normally leave laying out in an open-cockpit boat, that could sit inside the cabin for convenient access.

That said, my wife and I had a charming cabin on our little 14' Pocket Cruiser (our last sailboat before the CS20) and it was wonderful for our honeymoon, but ever after, it was always in the way: obstructing our view, making the cockpit much smaller than we would have liked, affecting steerage a bit in high winds, getting in the way during sail handling or dropping anchor, etc. The list goes on. When we sold it to afford the move to Georgia, I swore I would go with a well-decked, but cabin-less design, and built the Core Sound 20. I've never regretted it. Every now and then, I wish it had a cabin just because it would be handy on overnights or whatever, but 99% of the time, I am thrilled that there is no cabin... I have a gloriously unobstructed view, can feel the breeze on my face, can go forward quite easily, can handle the main without needing to step around a cabin or even climb up on the deck, have lots of space for laying out on the seats and lounging around... etc., etc.

If you have backpacking/camping experience, I would say to stick to your gut instinct. Equip your CS17 with a decent spray dodger or soft-canopy, and carry a nice tent along for sleeping at night on shore.

Not saying a cabin-less boat is necessarily better than a cabin design... there's pros and cons to both. But I really have been much happier with a simpler, more open boat and although I certainly understand the charm of cabins, I'm sold on the simpler-and-more-open-is-better philosophy now that I've tried both.

My two cents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.