Telltale placement for a cat ketch.

[Scott Dufour]

So there are dozens of articles out there telling me where to put telltales on my jib for scads of info about how my boat is pointing, and the adjustments I make in trim so that jib flies just right, and the main pulls most effectively and blah blah.

It's amazing how many sailing books don't even acknowledge that there's something besides the Bermuda rigged sloop on the water.

I'm looking to add a few telltales on both the main and mizzen that can really help me understand what the wind's doing as it moves over these foils.  I know there's a lot more I could do to maximize VMG when beating up.  Anybody have any special recommendations they'd like to give on the placement of those telltales?

[wkisting]

My telltales are on the aft edge of each sail... three to a sail, spaced equal distances apart from each other and from the top/bottom of the sail (essentially dividing the sail vertically into equal fourths). They came with the sails, and are made of a very lightweight ribbon-style fabric or (possibly) plastic. The sails seem to be most efficient when the three telltales on each sail are streaming parallel to each other, sticking out horizontally from the back of the sail. If any one of the telltales is not streaming aft, it usually means some part of the sail has too much or too little body (tighten or ease the snotter), twist (tighten or ease the snotter and/or halyard), or trim (trim or ease out the sheet).

That's the most I've been able to glean from my own experiments dawdling around on the lake.

I'm in the midst of reading a very well-written, helpful book called _Sailing Technique_ by H. A. Callahan.  Its original copyright is 1950 and I'm reading the ninth edition, printed in 1965, but its advice on the general aspects of wind movement and sail trim is, of course, mostly timeless and still applicable to sails today. Only a few of the references (such as to anchor design) are dated, insofar as it does not address modern anchor evolutions, etc. Still, I find the prose to be crisp, clear, and informative, with a lot of little tips that will likely improve my sailing. It also seems more pragmatic and developed in its discussion of the basic forces of sailing and helmsmanship than many of the more recent books I've read. If you can find a copy, I recommend it, since it is one of the few books I've found that does not devote itself exclusively to the Bermuda/Marconi rig. There are several references to gaff rigs, yawls, ketches, etc. and the book is divided into concepts that readily translate to effective techniuques for trimming any style rig. Thought I would mention it since you seem to be having the same problem I was running into: the distinct imbalance in favor of the Bermuda/Marconi rig. 459 pages, but a bit short on illustrations (a few more pictures would help clarify some concepts, but if you're patient with the prose, all is well-described).

[wkisting]

Here's a pic of my boat. If you look close, you can see the (red) telltales fastened at the aft edge of each sail, right at the end of the batten pockets. There was no wind when this pic was snapped, and the snotters and halyards are loosened also, so that's why the telltales are drooping and the sails look a bit wrinkled/creased.

It was much easier for me to read and sail effectively in light winds once I figured out the telltales, installed a small windvane (atop the mizzen mast), and installed a compass. With the three together, I am now able to more reliably determine when the trouble lies with my sail trim vs. wind shifts or pointing too close. A lot less guesswork...

[Ray Frechette Jr]

In addition to telltales on trailing edge of sail,,, For beating up wind 3 sets of telltales about a foot back form luff port and starboard equally spaced up the mast can be helpful.

At Small Reach Regatta in light airs I foudn times when my leach tales were streaming aft perfectly but there was a bubble iun the luff to windward.  Trimming in the sheet to eliminate that bubble increased speed to GPS and caused Leach tales to fall off a wee bit to leeward.

When Beating,  the luff trim is most important.

Better to have luff trimmed right than aft part of sail when closed hauled.  Having telltales near luff aid in that effort.

[wkisting]

Good tip, Ray. Thanks. I'll have to pick up a pack of stick-on telltales for near the luff.

[brigait1]

Scott,

I would consider putting a bunch at evenly-spaced intervals about a third of the way back from the leading edge. After a while, you would see which ones were the first to react to changing angles and could remove the others.

Cheers,

Pete

[Peter HK]

Here's where the sailmaker put telltales on my sails...I think it best not to have them too close to the luff because of the disturbed airflow near the mast (with a jib closer to the luff is fine).

Each is matched with a leech telltale.

[Scott Dufour]

Excellent input everybody.  I've already got the leach telltales- it's adding those closer to the luff that's key.  Pete's pictures help a lot.  3 telltales at each quarter up the sail, 1/3 of the way from the luff to the leach.  Got it.

And thanks for the reading tip, Wes.  It is hard to find sailing instruction not Marconi-centric.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Well you can still get a lot and axtrapolate.

Basically you want to set your sails so the flow well.

Ask Sukie what she does for hers...

[Gordy Hill]

I kinda have to go with Ray on this. I hate to because I'd rather argue with him, but it's not easy when he's usually right.

When you're going downwind you could have a plywood sail and it wouldn't make much difference. Upwind you have an airfoil. When the leeward tell tail points to the sky you don't have an airfoil. The sail stills works, but not nearly as well. I had my tell tails about a foot from the luff and was contemplating a little triangle window so I could see both ribbons. Were I to enter the Everglades Challenge I'd look into a tiny LED for night sailing.

I had one tell tail about three or four feet above the tack where it was clear from interference from the sprit. It was comfortably in view. Since the package came with who knows how many ribbons I put another set up higher to give me something to look at when I got bored.The theory, anyway is that when the act the same the sail is tweaked right and should stay tweaked as the sheet is adjusted.

Never worked for me so I just ignored the higher ones

Probably couldn't keep up with Sukie, but I like to think I'd outrun Ray. No reason to believe it, but I'd just like to think I'd outrun Ray.

[PAR]

Place your tells about a foot aft of the leading edge. Learn how to set the sail so they stream aft. Learn how to adjust the sail by the information the tells are offering.

For example, on my little hot rod (fractional, Bermudian sloop), I know the sails are set properly when the windward tells are just starting to dance. Most boats that can get out of their own way will like this setting. If both (sides) tells are streaming aft, then I should probably ease a touch.

On a sprit rig, though admittedly I don't have a lot of current experience, watching the behavior of the tells, from top to bottom of the rig, can make huge gains in sails shape (just like any other sail). For example (again) if your highest leeward and lowest windward tells are flapping, you've probably got too much outhaul tension.

It's wise to purchase a real set of tells, maybe the ones from Davis Instruments. The cheat sheet that comes with them, will teach you how to read them and once committed to memory, you'll be trimming for better sail shape and keeping her in the groove much longer. Sukie was able to stay "in the groove" longer and handled Ray, in spite of a shorter boat, so it's a fairly big deal. Personally, I've never needed leach tells, as it's fairly communicative all by it's self.

It does help to offset the starboard tells above or below the port tells, so they're easier to see. If they are directly opposite each other, then it can become confusing, especially in some lighting situations.

[wkisting]

I know the sails are set properly when the windward tells are just starting to dance. Most boats that can get out of their own way will like this setting. If both (sides) tells are streaming aft, then I should probably ease a touch.

That makes a lot of sense. All of the well-detailed books I've read--including the "Sailing Technique" book I'm working through now--say that the most efficient sail trim is just shy of the point where the sails will begin to luff/flap. The authors almost always recommend easing the sails out just to the point that they begin to luff, then trimming them in just enough to prevent the luffing. In that case, I would expect the lighter-weight tells to still "dance" a bit if the sail itself is trimmed just enough to quiet it down.

Since the author of "Sailing Technique" (H. A. Callahan) is a thoroughly experienced racer, he even goes so far as to recommend periodically easing the sails until they begin to luff, then trimming them in slightly. That way, you can ensure you are always sailing at peak efficiency, not trimmed further than necessary (which he calls "sailing bare") and losing some of that efficiency. I'm not that nit-picky, but it's a useful tip. (He also warns not to check trim by luffing too often or you'll lose efficiency that way also.)

[Ray Frechette Jr]

As far as windward gains I am altogether resolved to the issue that Sukie may have made a tactical decision on pointing that bested me.

Off the wind though when I didn't have the staysail  flying we were amazingly evenly matched.  That is where the extra roach and battens should have really have given me an advantage.  Now granted there can be times where even when boats are only separated by 100 ft or so one can be sailing in more wind than another and eddies and such can affect.  The overall feeling though is that we were basically at a draw where I should have been able to pull away the majority of times.

I plan on fitting a few more tells and seeing what I can do to make better advantage of what I have under me.

[Hirilonde]

I have found that when racing to weather I first adjust the sails to form the best shape for the wind strength.  Halyard, down haul, vang, outhaul, snotter, or what ever controls the rig has are adjusted to optimize sail shape.  I then trim in with the sheet of the forward sail to the closest it will perform well for the wind speed.  In light wind it is further out than heavy wind and will vary from one design to another.  Getting this right is a matter of practice.  I then trim the aft sail to maximize the slot between the 2 sails.  Tell tales play a big role in doing this.  Once my sails are set I do not touch them again unless the wind changes significantly or a puff makes sheeting out necessary.  I am not saying that I never trim again, but once I get it set well I try not to fix what aint broken.

I have heard the expression some where that sailing to weather is like climbing a ladder.  I believe it was from the book "First You Must Row a Little Boat"  It is done in steps.  I have always like this analogy.  I am constantly testing the wind by easing the helm (heading up) and hardening the helm (bearing off).  I want to carefully head up until the weather telltale on the foreward sail dances, and then slightly bear off to maximize speed.  I do this constantly.  You never want to head up so much as to luff, or so far down as to lose ground.  Of course this all sounds easy, but in practice it takes constant concentration and effort.  It also takes a while to become good at it, and even so you will over steer at times.  But when it comes to gaining or losing ground during weather legs of a race, I have found this is one of the greatest ways to do one or the other.