Mast slop

[markfitz]

After slicing the wedge off the back end of our weekend mast to change the angle, we find that the front hinge (and the hinges in general) have a lot of slop in them.  If I haul on the forestay, I can close the gap in the mast, but I'm not sure how much tension should be on that.  I am thinking of putting a turnbuckle there, just to get the mast to stand up straight.  Is that ok, or will it stress the  bowsprit too much?  I searched around on the forum quite a bit, and saw some threads that look like they might help, but the pictures are gone, so the posts weren't as informative as they could have been. We gained a bit of headroom on the boom from the 3 degree mast adjustment, but to tell the truth, I think the mast slop is probably doing worse things to the boom than the mast box was.

[Hirilonde]

After slicing the wedge off the back end of our weekend mast to change the angle, we find that the front hinge (and the hinges in general) have a lot of slop in them.

Is this because the shroud lengths were set for the mast position/angle from before?  

If I haul on the forestay, I can close the gap in the mast, but I'm not sure how much tension should be on that.

Gap in the mast?  I don't understand what this means.  Do you mean the gap between the mast and the partner?  Or between the mast and the tabernacle?

I am thinking of putting a turnbuckle there, just to get the mast to stand up straight.  Is that ok, or will it stress the  bowsprit too much?

Turnbuckles don't put too much stress on anything, the people tightening them do.  On a wooden boat it is definitely possible to over tighten the shrouds, but that does not mean a turnbuckle is a bad idea.  Your rig should be taught to the point it does not bounce around, but it is also not a banjo.

[Barry Pyeatt]

Wedges (Tapered Shims) are commonly used to take the slack out of the mast box and keep things in place.  What you lost was the thickness of the kerf caused by cutting the mast base.  If you wish, others have added a small shim to the bottom leading edge of the masts base that is the thickness of the kerf to keep things as they were as well as at the top of the mast box to keep the same dimension at the deck level.  Yes, the forestay will be shorter than before.  The aft shrouds will need to be slightly longer than before.  The top of the mast has moved forward quite a bit.  Adjust the length of the forestay so it is fairly tight when you set the mast.  Adjustment for tension should then be done with the turnbuckles on the shrouds just as before.  I know this might be an unknown for you since I got the impression that you hadn't raised the mast for sailing as yet

Then a boot is placed around the mast that will keep water from running down the mast and into the mast box.  This generally requires a wooden curb around the mast at the deck level.  This would be done regardless of what you might have needed to do to get the mast at the correct angle.  This is not addressed in the instructions from the plans. 

[markfitz]

Hi Barry, Hirlonde -- the problem seemed to be that the aft shrouds were too short.  We could get the front hinge pin in, but there was so much slop in the hinge itself that the mast was leaning backward, with about a 16th of an inch gap between the two pieces of mast.  We have it tight in the box, we added a piece of wood to the front once we had lost the saw kerf.  What we ended up doing was extending the shrouds, and adding a turnbuckle to the forestay.  This allowed us to close the hinge gap with the forestay and then tighten up the shrouds.  I think we're ok, just that we didn't know how to adjust it correctly at first and panicked a bit, thinking we were going to need different hinges. The good news is, I'd say we got about 10-12" of boom clearance out of the 3 degree change. 

[Andrew_Butchart]

I have a turnbuckle on my forestay - in part because I'm too fat and lazy to haul it forward under tension and it works well for me.  I added a nut and lock washer to one side of all of my turnbuckles so that I can lock them in place after tensioning them.

When I built my mast, I built the top and bottom parts separately (really bad idea).  I ended up using body filler to get a tight fit between the two sections.

[Hirilonde]

It sounds like your modifications have been tweeked sufficiently to adapt to the new mast position. 

The lower section of the mast as you call it functions as a tabernacle.  Whether it should be called one or not is debatable.  It might be an amusing subject for a debate, but the main thing is that all know what is being discussed.  That is why it was unclear to me what gap you were referring to.

It seems that several people have concluded that the mast should be raked forward 3 degrees from the plans.  That it creates more room under the boom I hope is not the sole reason.  The location and angle of a mast should be such that the forces on the sails are balanced to the boat.  I hope the new configuration is at least as good as the one in the design.  I have never seen a Weekender in person, never mind sailed one, so I wouldn't know.

Back when sailboats were designed by eye it was common for the rig to require modification to balance the helm and such.  The Wianno Sr., a very popular Crosby designed and built boat requires the mast be raked forward to the point of looking out of place to properly balance the helm.  At least this is the opinion of some owners.

[Barry Pyeatt]

Great Mark!

That is the way it should be done.  You will notice when you are under sail that the tension on the shrouds will change as you sail.  The more pressure there is on one side or the other the tighter the stay will be on that side as well.  Often the stays on the opposite side will be a little slack.  Learning to adjust them for more or less equalized tensionwhen there is no difference in pressure is part of learning how to adjust your rigging for it to perform well.  Having a bit of forward rake to the mast was essential to this design to keep the Weekendr from having too heavy a helm.  (Weather helm).  While under sail if you to release the helm  The boat should turn into the wind on its own until the boat points directly into the wind with both jib and main fluttering with equal pressure on both sides of the sails.  This is turning into the weather.  If the pressure on the jib were greater than on the main the boat would turn away from the wind and this is called lee helm.  This can be very dangerous under some conditions if the helm has been released and it happens on its own.  These boats are designed so that they have some weather helm for safety reasons.  As you gain experience and you have a better feeling for how things feel under varying conditions you can tweak (tune) things to give you better control and to increase performance a bit. 

Initially learning how to tack consisitenly and how to adjust the peak halyard for best mainsail shape and power and then how to detune it to loose power will be a major goal.  You may want to add telltails  to your sails as you get further along and get used to how it handles.  These will allow you to see how the air flows over the leading edge and across both sides of the sails.  You will find out how changing tension on your halyards or sheets can allter the sail shapes enough to give them better shape and performance. 

It is going to be a lot of fun.  Just take your time, don't push things too far initially until you get used top how it handles for you.  Learn the safety tips, follow them.  Learn hot to sail the boat in a 360 degree circle around a fixed point and how to get to a fixed point from all points of sail.  The learning curve can be fast or as slow as you take it.  Just don't be afraid to ask questions. :grin:

[markfitz]

Thanks!  We are hoping to hoist the sails on some actual water next week.  Sorry I'm not using all the correct sailing terminology yet -- some of it is confusing!  Thanks for all the tips.  I'll let you know how it works out.  (Assuming I come home with most of the big pieces.)

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Kind of curious as to why you adjusted mast rake 3 degrees.  That is a fair amount.

Were you having issues with sail balance that led you to adjust it?

Or were you just trying to get the boom up a bit??

[markfitz]

Ray, mostly just because the plans called for 93, and as-built, we were at 96 degrees.  We figured we'd get it as close to right as we could before we actually tried to sail the thing.

[Frank Hagan]

The mast rake on the Weekender is one of the most vexing issues to the amateur builder.  The plans call for the forward bulkhead to be set at a 3 degree rake back, to 93 degrees, with the angle read from 5" forward of the bulkhead on the floor.  But that really depends on the keel being cut correctly, since the floor follows the angle of the keel.  When installed, the mast follows the angle of the forward bulkhead, so this early step determines how well the boat will sail.

I think most of us believe the mast rake variation is the reason some people report severe weather helm with the Weekender.  I felt my Weekender has an almost perfect feeling helm, with just enough weather helm to turn up into the wind if the sheets are loosed, but not enough to fight you while sailing.