CS 20 Convertible

[Noklin]

I picked the CS 20 over the CS 17 to have more room for myself, the wife and the 3 grandkids (ages 18, 13 and 11). With a possible trip from Florida to Belize via Cuba in the next 6 years and the current need for privacy with any where from 1 to 3 women aboard I was wondering about adding a cabin.

The problem is that I expect to sail alone most of the time and I like the big open feeling of the CS20 without a cabin. I know that several people have already added a cabin to the CS20, but I was wondering if anyone had considered adding a removable cabin.

What I am thinking about is a 1/8

[wkisting]

Sounds like a good idea. I think Jeff's cabin is removable, so he may have input here.

Personally, the more I think about it, the more I have been considering building something more like a simple plywood canopy that covers the forward-third of the cockpit opening, with no sidewalls, but just enough arch that you could lay down on the seat and slide under it to get out of the rain (but not with enough room to sit up under it on the seats). If desired, you could also sit on the floor and then it would be possible to sit up under it. This will keep the canopy from obstructing the regular view, provide rain shelter in a pinch, allow sleeping onboard, and offer a place for passengers to duck under in heavy spray/splash conditions. It would also prevent waves/splash from entering the cockpit over the forward quarter, which does occasionally occur.

The problem, of course, is that I haven't yet decided what the ideal compromise would be between the arch height and taper, versus preserving maximum visibility. I hate having a cabin in the way when sailing, and the total sense of openness is one of the things I love about sailing the CS20.

Another possibility is to make a canopy like I describe, then allow it to raise like a pop-top camper, but I'm convinced this would needlessly complicate things and I want to keep the boat as simple as possible.

Wes

[John Turpin]

If I were doing it, knowing myself and my tendency to over-build and add features, I'd personally never keep the weight down.  That would be my only concern.  The more weight that you add to that "cabinette", the more you mess around with the center of gravity, motion, righting, etc..  I suspect that some weight in the keel would be needed to do this safely, but what do I know?

Definately a project that would need Graham's thoughts and brainpower.

[ChrisObee]

Sounds to me like you want a canvas top.   A couple of aluminum ribs and a few tie down points and you are all set.  easy to stow, easy to erect.  Kind of an extra long dodger.  But I see that you are set on  a hard top of some sort.  I'm not sure why a hard top would be preferable over a canvas top during a long passage.

[Hirilonde]

Sounds to me like you want a canvas top.   A couple of aluminum ribs and a few tie down points and you are all set.  easy to stow, easy to erect.  Kind of an extra long dodger.  But I see that you are set on  a hard top of some sort.  I'm not sure why a hard top would be preferable over a canvas top during a long passage.

I think this is the direction I would take.  It would mean outside help for me, possibly professional, which means money.  It would however not only be removable, but it could be stored on board to be erected when needed/wanted only.  Now that I think about it I might even want it to be 2 pieces that zipper together.  The forward piece could be like a dodger with an after piece that when added makes it into a "cabinette".

[tom151]

Lots of boats have home made dodgers/biminis made from parts and pieces.

With examples like the Sea Pearl a simple design could be developed for the CS series boats. The CS coaming provides the perfect mounting location. A double section could be done by placing the aft section on tracks along the outside of the coaming in order to slide it fwd when putting it down for storage.

For hardware, I haven't seen much cheaper than at DuckWorks. For example, their suggestions here... http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/bimini/index.htm make it simple enough.

I have marine primed/painted steel electrical conduit they mention and it was quite serviceable in a salt water environment for many years.

[Peter HK]

One example here

http://www.batchelors.net/personal/boat/cs17/index.html

Cheers

Peter HK

[double 7]

re cs 20 convertible                                                                                                                                              tha kind o dodger tent  was covered in  (canvassing a core sound 17)

[ChrisObee]

Yes very much like that but extending all the way to the main mast.  I think I would call this a dodger.  Perhaps a little higher as well but then I'm rather on the large size. 

[Hirilonde]

I could see a dodger similar to the one Chris shows, but with some clear panels in it.  Then an add on section that would create the cabin for at anchor.  I can certainly appreciate why some people choose the hard cabin, but I would not want to give up the open daysailor option as day trips would be my most common use of the boat.

[JeffM]

I tried various mickey mouse tents, but was unable to work one out to my satisfaction.  I finally went with a solid top because I wanted permanent dry storage, a place out of the weather underway as well as at anchor, privacy in the head, and some hope of increasing safety in a knockdown.  Note that I most often travel with one or two kids, and seldom day-sail.  My cabin is removeable only in theory: it is well-bolted on and thoroughly caulked.  If I ever decide to remove it, I won't likely put it back.  Having said that, I'm fairly happy with it.  Kids and short people have sitting headroom.  (Not me, unfortunately.)  Spray stays out of the cockpit.  A big forward companionway gives easy access to the foredeck, though so far I seldom used it.  It is kind of almost weatherproof, and in a capsize keeps some water out of the boat and (ballasted with two deep cycle batteries) aids stability.  Knowing what I do now, I would have preferred to have built it with the cabin in the first place, so I could lay out the interior better, etc.  But if I had known what I do now, I wouldn't know what I do now--if you know what I mean!

[Doug Cameron]

I did a dodger on the standard CS20.  I am modifying it in 2 ways: adding zippers to the windows to have access to the main w/o going forwars (to reef, etc.) and replacing the PC with a standard stainless frame so that it will lie down assembled and attached to the foredeck.

I found this did a wonderful job of keeping the boat dry in a choppy reach or beating, and we could sleep under it with only our feet exposed.  It would make a dry cooking spot at anchor.

[Ken_Potts]

  Ernest Shackleton and a couple of his buddies sailed the James Caird (a ship's boat) across some of the least hospitable reaches of the Southern Ocean by canvassing over the cockpit.  If you're looking primarily for a daysailer you may want to think about temporary modifications to get you across the open stretches of water before you arrive at your destination.

  A cabin is a great thing to have if you're going to use it on more than one trip, but may not be ideal if you just day-sail the boat from then on.  Jeff found that he likes to take longer trips and the cabin suits him for the kind of sailing he does; Paul Stewart and family built a CS20 with a cabin and they use it fairly regularly for longer trips;  I built a CS17 with an open (and slightly smaller than drawn) cockpit and i find that the boat suits my everyday needs very well.  Typically I'm a daysailer and most of the time a cabin would be in my way.  On the rare occasion that I take a multi-day trip it's kind of inconvenient to have to worry about a tent but that's just once in a while.

  True, the James Caird and the Core Sound have nothing in common other than they were designed as open boats, but James Caird is a good example of a boat intended for day-use that was converted for a long passage.  I think you could do well with a dodger or a temporary (tough but LIGHT) fabric structure to stay dry.

  I guess my thinking is build the boat you want to sail in the long term and modify it temporarily for a short passage if need be.

  On the other hand, if the long term plan is for weekends aboard you could do a lot worse than to follow Jeff and Paul's example - On my few overnight trips per year I think longingly of those two boats and their accommodations  :cool:

[Doug Cameron]

Full sized replica of the James Caird at Grytvicken, South Georgia:

[PeterP]

Shackleton was a good one but give credit where credit is due. Kiwi by the name of Frank Worsley did the sailing/navigating and his book has to be one of the best small boat yarns ever. PeterP

[Ken_Potts]

  You are absolutely correct, Peter, but we should also give credit to the ship's carpenter, Harry McNish for making the reinforced spray skirt.

  I was just trying to say that if an open Core Sound will be the more attractive choice for all but the trip down to her new home, a temporary spray skirt type solution ala Harry McNish would be a good solution.

  On the other hand, if Mr. Noklin is going to spend a lot of nights on the boat in his new home (I'm so envious) a cabin such as JeffM or Paul Stewart built would be a good option.

  Okay, one more picture.  Here's the real James Caird in the North Cloister at Dulwich College, Dulwich Common, London.  :cool:  I hate that I missed the opportunity to see that boat when I was not too far away.

[Doug Cameron]

RIP Earnest Shakleton

[Joe Anderson]

Peter

When I went to Amazon there were three or four books by Frank Worsley.

Endurance

Under sail in the frozen north

Shackleton's Boat Journey

Was there one in particular that you recommend?

[PeterP]

Joe, His "Shackleton's Boat Journey" is my personal favorite. The ultimate small boat trip I feel. Combines the sea and mountains which happen to strongly resonate in my life as well. Another good one is Bill Tilman along the same lines. I have to warn you though - after you read those books you will find it extremely difficult to say: I think it is too cold to go sailing today hon. PeterP

[Noklin]

Shackleton's Boat Journey is one of my favorites. They did what they had to do in order to survive.

They used boulders placed in the bottom of the boat for ballast and then had to sleep on them. Every day they had to climb out alone the topsides to chip off the ice buildup that was causing the boat to be top heavy. The real measure of their journey was illustrated when they reached safety in a whaling port, the whaling ship masters were astonished at the journey they had made in such a small boat during that time of the season. As I recall it took the large rescue ship two attempts to reach the stranded men due to the weather.