Off topic: Manipulating the numbers

[Konrad]

This post is completely political, yes.  

But the conversation I had with a colleague the other day bothers me quite a bit, and people need to hear this.

First off, I work for an architecture firm that does almost exclusively health care facilities.  We have no engineers on board:  We use outside engineering consultants for all of our mech, elect, and most of our civil.  

The president of one of our consultants told me how they were preparing a proposal about 6 weeks ago for a project that had stimulus money attached to it.  And he was given a form to fill out that he was to sign that stated "how many jobs this project would create" in his firm.  Well, of course it wouldn't create ANY new jobs for his firm because they could do the project with the people they currently employ.  

So he put "zero" on that part of the form, and submitted it.  And you know what he was told by the primary design firm that he prepared this for?  They said "if you don't put something on there besides zero, we're not going to be considered for the project."

In other words, to be considered for the project, they have to lie about the "number of jobs it will create."

That smacks of manipulation to me, friends and neighbors.  

No matter what this administration proclaims about jobs being created, I have serious doubts.

Now, before you reply...

I'm not trying to stir everyone up here.

This forum is usually a nice refuge from topics such as this.

So for that, I apologize for breaching that unspoken rule.

I don't want to start an ugly thread.

But this number manipulation thing really bothers me.

[Frank Hagan]

That's the way it works.  In government speak, "create jobs" and "saved jobs" are really the same thing.  He should put down the number of jobs that are saved by the project (i.e., the number of guys he'll have working on it). 

Government has a language all its own.

A spending "cut" can be a increase of 2% instead of the planned increase of 3%, and they'll say its a "30% cut!". 

The unemployment numbers drop off the hard core unemployed.  After a certain length of time, they stop counting you.  So if you've been unemployed for over a year, you aren't counted as unemployed.  In the stats, it looks like you have a job.  They cured the problem, except for the part about you not having a job.

A tax increase "for the rich" only applies to the amount of money over a certain amount.  So if the top rate for someone earning more than $250,000 a year goes up 5% and makes the top rate 42%, it isn't 42% retroactively to their first dollar.  Its an extra 5% for every dollar after $250,000.  So they aren't paying a 42% tax on income, they are paying a percentage for each bracket that is exactly the same as everyone else, and then only that top bracket of money (over the $250,000 in my hypothetical) is at 42%. 

If you are paying 13,000 a year in federal income taxes and someone tries to pass a tax reduction for your bracket, they will call that a "subsidy".  They haven't given you money, they have merely not taken quite as much, but they call it a subsidy.  But if the government prints out a check and mails it to you that's not a subsidy ... that's an "entitlement". 

Figures don't lie, but liars figure! 

[Bud_Wilson]

Konrad  Wake up and smell the flowers. Stimulas money is to make jobs. If your company uses all outside help and it is not going to ad any jobs you don't need the money. Go no futher so I don't post the rest of the story. Bud.

[Konrad]

Bud:  NO design firms out there right now are going to add to their payroll any time soon.  In the commercial market, it will continue through 2011.  This downturn was an excuse for design firms to clean house and lose the excess baggage (the less productive, more mistake-prone designers).  There are a lot of professionals on the street.  The two biggest downturns forcast for the next year are Industrial and Hotel/Resort.  Luckily, Healthcare/Hospitals (our company's niche) aren't projected to have as bad of a decline, but it's still a decline. 

My post is mostly about the clear manipulation going on to create statistics, even if those "jobs" are only on paper, and not "real".

"Fill in this line on the form, and write down the right thing so you'll be considered for the project."

That's not truth.  That's not anything CLOSE to the truth.  Maybe I'm just naive about government.

As a collective whole, are we the public really that uninformed that we fall for that?

Apparently we are.  :sad:

[Craig]

Do you remember "Cooperate and graduate"?  YOU are 100% correct Konrad but you have to play the game.  They have played so long that there is no going back now.  Yes Sir, my squad killed 500 dinks during this mission!!!  Yes Sir, that is an accurate number, on my honor!!!!

Sorry, just an old mans ramblings.......

[Bruce Kershaw]

Manipulating the numbers

[Konrad]

I promise, I'll stop this thread after this post, because it feels wrong to be political here.

But this just stinks to high heaven:  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090909/ap_on_bi_ge/us_tarp_oversight_panel

OK, no more.

Back to boat building and sailing...

[Knot Reel]

Unfortunately there is a price to be paid for playing the game and getting the business.

You haven't addressed a real problem, you have compounded it.

It's like a bad tooth. You can go get it over with today with a filling or you can pay 10 times more later for a root canal.