tacking into the wind

[Guest twohike]

I built the vacationer and having difficulty tacking into or across the wind.The boat always gets blown back across before it follows through.

Im a new sailor so maybe my technique is wrong  Thanks for the help in advanced.

[PAR]

Take an experienced sailor out with you the next sail and have them show you the basics. On these boats you really need to keep speed up before and during maneuvers.

[ScottWidmier]

The long keel on the Vacationer makes it slow to tack.  There is no one sharply defined point to rotate around so you have to tack like a multihull (catamaran) boat rather than a monohull with centerboard or daggerboard. 

[Konrad]

There aren't a lot of Vacationer sailors here, but you're lucky enough to have found the right one: (me)   ;D    ;D

You haven't posted a lot of info, so I'm going to be kind of broad and general at first.  Some of this is going to sound really obvious, but if you come accross something you may have not considered, then we've helped you out.

First off, you've built the rig and set it up according to the design, right?  I mean obvious things, like you do have a jib, yes?

And you have the rudder and rudder box according to design?  And by that, part of what I'm asking is if you have the rudder fully down (raked forward)?  The obvious indicator that you wouldn't have it raked forward enough would be that your boat wants to round up into the wind excessively.

One thing you mentioned in your post is that you're new to sailing.  Are you attempting to sail in winds below 5 mph?  That's hard to tack in, so if that's the case, you've just got to get more boat speed in more wind.  I went out yesterday in sub-5 mph winds, and never even attempted a tack.  I just gybed it all afternoon.

OK, so assuming you've got it rigged and set up right, and you're in 7-9 mph winds, your mighty Vacay should be heeling nicely and will tack effortlessly, I promise.  (Don't listen to Scott, he's got Vacationer envy)  

1.  First of all, be sure you're pointing the boat into the wind a reasonable amount.  Attempting to tack from a broad reach is probably not best.  So get it pointing up into the wind and going forward well.  Sit on the downwind side to make it heel, if necessary.  I do that a lot.  

2.  One thing I think people do too often is that they sheet in too tight.  I never never have the end of my boom over the corner of the back of the boat, even sailing into the wind.  The end of the boom is always out over the water.  So check to see that you're not too close-hauled.  That stalls the sail.  

3.  Then just begin with smooth and slow input at the wheel.  Don't throw the wheel or spin it like crazy.  That will create drag and you'll lose fwd momentum too quickly.  It's a smooth and gradual input.  At first, you don't turn the wheel much, but as you continue turning, continue giving more at the wheel.  

4.  By the time you're eye into the wind, you should be at the full range of your rudder's turning ability.  Sheet the jib in when you come eye into the wind, and keep it there.  Once the bow crosses eye-into the wind, the jib will fill before the main (if you keep it sheeted tight) and it will pull the front of the boat around.  Keep the main sheeted out while doing this.  Once you've got the bow around and the boat's going forward a bit, then bring the main sail back into the equation.

Have I given you anything useful here?  Let me know how it goes for you.  And one more thing...

Post Pix..!!  The Vacationer crowd are the few and the proud, so let's see it.

[Barry Pyeatt]

One common situation that has a really adverse effect w/new to sailing buddies that you should check.

As Konrad alluded.  Check out a number of things including how you have the rudder installed.  Also check rudder swing to port and starboard from dead center.  If you have more than about 30 degrees to either side of center you are in all likelihood causing the rudder to stall when you are turning.   To understand what I mean, hold your hand out of your car window while driving with your hand flattened and edge of your hand into the wind.  As you turn your wrist, feel what happens w/airflow over your hand.  You reach a point where the air no longer flows over your hand but blocks it.  That point is at about 30 degrees off of the wind.  Same thing happens in the water.   To see what I mean, take a flat board along or a paddle.  Hold the board or paddle down into the water while moving.  As you turn the board or paddle you feel the board or paddle moving well up to a point.  When you get much past 30 degrees they will feel like you are blocking the flow of water and you are.  It acts just like a brake and you slow down substantially, especially when you try to come about in a tack.

I've advised a number of builders to install blocks to limit the side to side movement of the tiller so that you are limited to about 30-33 degrees.  Then the rudder will act more like a foil and help you thru the turns rather than acting like a brake when you throw the helm over all the way to try to tack or turn.   The blocks can be on the underside of the rear deck with rubber cushions on the sides like hinge stops for doors.  They work well and can be fine tuned with stop nuts on them to keep them stationary.  Or if you are using a tiller, the blocks can be on either side of the rudder box on the transom.

Your speed does need to be kept up.  Most people try to point too close into the wind while working upwind.   The boat heels over more, and you feel like you are really moving well and quickly but if you ease off  a bit on the main sheet as Konrad stated and ease off of the wind a bit you will flatten up a bit, your speed will actually increase a bit and then you shouldn't have any problem in light to moderate winds to tack.  

Another thing to check is the angle of your mast.  If it isn't at the right angle you can have too much weather helm or too little.  Too much makes the helm heavy even in moderate winds and want to turn directly into the wind.  That is being locked into irons.  You have a difficult time getting the boat to turn away from heading directly into the wind.  Too little and the boat will not track straight without constant attention.  And a shifting wind can cause you to loose control.  Letting the helm go and the boat may well turn away from the wind and that can be really dangerous.   A little weather helm is good, too much makes a hard to turn and tack boat, too little makes it hard to control or dangerous.

Sitting on the down wind side to induce heeling is fine on a Weekender or Vacationer provided the winds are really light and you have a pretty well balanced helm with a tendency to turn into the wind if you release the helm.  If not, and it is not almost flat.  better off staying on the upwind side where you have better control and changing sides after you have pased thru the wind and are settling down into a new tack.  

Remember, it is hard to point closer to the wind than about 45 degrees off to either side in one of these boats if they are not really well balanced and finely tuned.   Any closer than that and you are likely fooling yourself about speed and how well things are handling.

[HankD]

Konrad and Barry both gave a lot of great advice but just to reiterate what they said I'll throw in my two cents as a completely novice sailor not really qualified to help anyone. In my very limited experience (I've never sailed a vacationer) a few important things I have learned on my boats is to (as Barry said) not go hard over on the tiller, and (As Konrad said) pull the jib over at the right time. If I neglect the jib I find it occasionally catching me in irons and dragging me back over. This only seems to happen in certain conditions which I am not yet experienced enough to identify.

Another thing that I find myself doing is pulling in the sheet and letting the weather helm do as much work as possible without adding any resistance from my rudder. Once I feel that I am at the point that my boat is heading up into the wind and is only going to lose speed I tip the rudder a bit to get the bow to cross the wind. At this point my wife has already adjusted the jib (as soon as it loosens up and starts to luff she pulls it over so she doesn't have to fight it).  At this point the jib fills and seems to bring my boat on around.

Again, I'm still a novice and learn something new everyday. I've had no formal instruction and all that I've learned from sailing has come from a combination of reading and being too gutsy for my own good.

[Bud_Wilson]

Twohike all this advice is good, but what this all means is when you start get up to speed even if you have to drop off a little bit and ease into it. It is easy to shoot your self in the foot by trying to hard. Just ease the rudder over and let the boat work she will go right around. Most of the time when the boat gets caught in irons is because you tried to hard. Just ease he over like you are sneaking up on her,  And tell her thank you lady. Bud.

[PAR]

Cat ketches do not have any special advantage in tacking over a sloop.

[PAR]

Oh please, a cat ketch is little more then a sloop with the foretriangle luff attached to it's own spar.

[Charlie Jones]

except that it's completely self tending. an IS far simpler to tack-just shove the helm over.

We have and sail both- a cat ketch and a sloop

[PAR]

You have to compare apples to apples, so if you use boomed sails on one, the other should also have them.

[Charlie Jones]

well, there is that- and the original post WAS about a Vacationer

Which DOES have a boomed foresail.

But as for the cat ketch with a sprit boomed rig- After sailing one,  I really don't see why more cruisers don't use the rig-it IS easier to handle than a standard sloop, beating to windward. and far handier off the wind also.

I guess it's simply a matter of not enough press for the sprit boomed cat  ketch rigs.

Our sharpie had regular booms on it when first built. I switched to sprit-booms and will NEVER go back to regular booms.

On that boat let me add.

[PAR]

Most just use the helm to get through a bad tack rather then fool around with back winding anything. Simply reversing the helm, letting windage do what it does, then accepting the new course and bringing the helm up again doesn't require touching anything but the tiller, regardless of rig configuration.

I know you all have an affinity for the rig and it does have some advantages in small craft, but all rig types have pros and cons about them, none as far as I'm aware have any  true advantage over others. I'm just saying you get used to what you have and it becomes easy for you. I wasn't attempting to pee on anything either.