ChrisObee Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I wouldn't ship the rudder until I got in the boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordy Hill Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I had an uphaul and an amazingly clever bungee downhaul. The bungee went from the knot in the hole on the rudder blade up to a block and then down to another block that was mounted so the bungee came out of the front of the rudder head and up to a simple overhand knot that I slipped over a large round head screw. This made the bungee long enough to do the job and I could release the tension when the boat was put away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Cameron Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I drilled a hole in the aft edge of the rudder, filled with thickened epoxy, then redrilled. The line comes through a fairlead on the side of the top of the rudder and hence to a clam cleat on the side of the tiller. I do launch with the rudder on (and up) because they expect you to launch and then get out of the way (this is on ramps in Tennessee and Alabama that are used primarily by bass boats). Be sure to add some sort of device to keep your buoyant rudder in the gudgeons when you get into waves. I didn't at first and Graham told me that that was a very dangerous mistake. There is no mention of such in the plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Doug- yes, there is mention of the hold down. Look on the page that details the rudder. It's a circled #4 showing just over the bottom pintle. Even lists the part number of the hold down. RL something. More for current builders than for you And by the way, I DON'T see a hold down in Wes's pictures of his rudder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkisting Posted June 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Yep, I've got a rudder hold down Charlie. Just not installed yet. I think Doug is correct that, on my plans at least, no hold down is shown but I figured it out. Perhaps Graham has updated the plans since mine, as a few of my sheets have had little quirks like that. Or I may be missing the sheet you're referring to, since my set has been slightly incomplete. Thanks for advice on uphauls. If any of you has pictures, that would be appreciated, but I think I can follow your descriptions if not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria CS20 104 Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Tiller looks great, haven't reached that far yet, hope to sew up this 4th of July holiday or near after on the 104. Questions, where did your get the SS keel strip? and How big is your motor? Unique looking attachment rig, self designed? Copy of plan? Jim Atkinosn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkisting Posted June 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Hi Jim, The stainless steel I ordered from McMaster-Carr. They ship very fast, so you can usually get what you need within about 2 business days of placing the order if they have it in stock. We used a 6' section of 3/4" SS half-round for the bow, followed by three 6' sections of 1/8" thick x 3/4" wide SS flat bar for the rest of the keel (All 304 stainless, which is fine for a trailer sailor, but if you'll store yours in the water, you should look for the far more expensive 316 stainless). You can cut off the flat bar with a hacksaw and drill and countersink it fairly easily (use a drill press, set to its slowest setting [ideally slower than 300 rpm], and squirt a little oil on the bit as you drill each hole). You have to feed the bit consistently because if you let it spin or dance on top of the metal for too long, it can cause the stainless to "work harden." I didn't have any troubles, though by applying constant drilling pressure. The half-round is trickier to drill, so I recommend having it rolled, drilled, and countersunk at a metal shop. Of course, in retrospect, I think the next time around I would just use a 1/4" thick x 3/4" wide strip of Ash (or some other hardwood) for the keel strip. Ours came out fine, but it was a lot of fiddling around to attach the stainless. We used #8 fasteners for all, but next time, I would probably use #10 fasteners, though I suspect ours will be plenty strong as-is. BTW, as we learned the hard way, if you try to roll the metal bar AFTER drilling the fastener holes, it will have a tendency to "kink" at each fastener hole. I recommend rolling the metal first, THEN drilling it for fasteners. This makes drilling a bit trickier, but I still think it would be easier than what we did. We spaced our fastener holes every 8" on center. The motor bracket is custom made. My dad is a steel fabricator, so he assembled it. I drew up the plans and designed it. Here (below) are the final drawings we used, though we raised the "receiver" tube 1/2" higher in the final product (so that it's only 7" down from the reference line, instead of 7-1/2"). [Edit to add We also beefed up the receiver to 2-1/2" O.D. and the removable tube to 2" O.D. (both 1/4" wall thickness).] The length of the receiver tube depends on the thickness of your transom. Ours was 1-5/8" thick where we reinforced it, so the receiver sticks through the back 1-1/4", which is just enough to leave room for inserting the pin that holds in the removable bracket. If you consider having one of these fabricated, I strongly recommend making a full-size cardboard mock-up of the mounting plates to see if they will work on your transom, just in case there are any variables between my transom and yours. [Edit to add: the size of your motor will also matter.] I haven't had a chance to go motoring with it yet, but it holds the motor very well, and I can dangle my 175 lbs. body weight from the end of the receiver with very little transom deflection. When the deck is installed, there should be no deflection at all, so I suspect it will handle the torque of the 40 lbs. motor very easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkisting Posted June 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Quick question: When I drill the holes for stepping the mast through the thwart and deck, should I drill 3" exactly for the 3" dia. aluminum tube I'm using, or should I overdrill to, say, 3-1/4" to allow room for some kind of chafe protection (leather?) around the mast/hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 I found that having a hole that is a close fit to the tubing OD makes it difficult to slide the mast through without binding. An idea that others have used and I would try is to make the hole oversize and add a fiberglass collar on the mast at the point where it meets the structure. That way the mast slides easily into place and only tightens up for the last inch or so for the width of the collar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkisting Posted June 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Thanks Garry, that's a terrific idea. Probably I'll go with the 3-1/4" hole and then add a wrap or two of tape around the mast to reduce the clearance to 1/16". I was thinking of going around the top of the mast hole in the thwart with 3/8" roundover bit. Any reason that would be unwise? I added a doubler under the thwart to give me extra thickness/strength, so taking off a little extra material at the top shouldn't be a problem, unless there's something I'm not considering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Niemann Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Wes, I guess you are choosing not to make a fiberglass tube for the mast to slide into. I made a tube and it makes it relatively easy to slide the mast into it. The tube goes from deck to keel. The details of how to do make it are somewhere on this site. If you do choose to do it, add a couple of wraps more than called for so the fiberglass tube will slide easily off the mast once cured. I believe Tom posted an even better way to create the mast tube. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffM Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Actually, I had problems with the thwart being too tight, also. Just took a rasp and made it a bit bigger. Same with the hole through the deck for the mainmast: used a 3" hole saw and then enlarged it 'til the tube fit snugly. Last time out it was the step that caused me some sweat: I think the the epoxy has worn of both plug and step and they've gotten wet and swollen a bit. Maintenance time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkisting Posted July 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Hi guys, sorry I'm slow to reply... wife and I have been jumping through hoops to buy a house... a lot of paperwork, inspections, etc., but it looks like we'll soon have a new home in a nice area on the edges of Augusta (within 10 miles of the lake!). Dale, actually I am using the mast tube for the foremast, but I was asking primarily about the mizzen. I didn't mean to include the foredeck in my question... just wasn't thinking about the fact that that hole diameter is already determined by the tube. I settled on drilling the thwart to 3-1/4" and will add a small collar to the mast to make a snug fit as Garry suggested... a test fitting made this decision look like it will work very well. We also drilled the mizzen mast step to 3-1/4" so we will fill it with a bit of thickened epoxy to mold it to the foot of the mast later for a perfect fit. Jeff, I'm thinking of making my mast plug (end cap) of plywood to minimize swelling for exactly the reason you mentioned. Plus, I already have a very nice plug of plywood laminated together which I cut out of the mizzen mast step. Posted some updated pics on the most recent chapter of my building journal: www.roguepaddler.com/cs20m.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordy Hill Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Wes, I made my first mast plug out or pressure treated stock and it swelled. It resulted in near disaster in the Great Race. I replaced both with plastic (maybe polypropylene). I found some about an inch thick in a surplus store here in Orlando. It works great and the mast turns more easily as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkisting Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Thanks Gordy... that's a great idea. I'll see if I can track something like that down. I'll need to use something that is fairly workable because I have to attach a "key" to keep the mast from rotating also (using sail track). Maybe I'll check out that high-density plastic that West Marine sells for making non-structural boat pieces (like racks, table tops, etc.). It's pricey, but I wouldn't need much of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Vacanti Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Why would you have to prevent the mast from rotating a bit? I don't see what harm it will cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I recall Graham telling me he has gotten away from the idea of stopping the mast from rotating on masts with track. In fact, I JUST called and spoke with Graham. He has gotten away from limiting the mast rotation when using sail track because he feels is eases the strain on things like the snotter, etc. The mast is still somewhat limited in it's ability to rotate by the down hauls and halyards, but otherwise he thinks it better to spin. Their internet is still down by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkisting Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Really, so I DON'T have to worry about mast rotation? That's great news, as it simplifies assembly. I could've sworn I read somewhere that it creates problems if the masts on a CS20 with sail track setup are allowed to rotate, but perhaps it was a very old post that no longer applies??? Thanks so much for letting me know. I was planning to make some kind of "keyed" mast cap in the next day or two, but now I'll just leave them flat-bottomed with a basic cap to prevent the aluminum from gouging into the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Luckett Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 This is slightly off of this subject topic, but would I be right in thinking this is the longest sustained thread and/or number of views on a single thread, on this forum? I like it all in one spot and plan to try printing all of it out later to study...a CS17 or 20 is in my future...probably the 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Niemann Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Wes, I was in the process of converting "Lively" from sleeve sail to tracks when Graham changed his thinking so I left mine set up to rotate freely. Have been sailing "Lively" with tracks for maybe 6-8 months with this configuration and have found no problems. I like this set up. Also, I do not use battens so I can roll the sail on mast for storage and transportation. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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