kormorant2 Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Ok I have decided to build a PD Racer. The Question I have about glue is twofold. (1) If I use Titebond II, can I still overlay the bottom with fiberglass and epoxy? (2) Is Titebond III a better waterproof glue than Titebond II? I have already ordered my plywood and will start cutting out parts this weekend. The temperature is projected to fall to -20 (below 70) ;D so I will be needing something that will cure quick to assemble the basic boat with this weekend. I have a nice dry place to store it until spring when I will be able to epoxy and fiberglass. Thanks for everyone's help. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 number one- yes. Number two- yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 TiteBond II is only water resistant, so a leaking joint or sheathing will weaken the glue pretty quickly. TiteBond III just barely qualifies as a water proof glue. Technically, kindergarten paste should be fine under a good 'glass sheathing, but experience tells me that water finds a way in, no matter how hard we try. I'd use the TiteBond III for this reason. I'd also use thickened epoxy on joints that need to be especially strong. On a PD there aren't many of these, but give it some thought. On cold nights I use an electric oil filled heater (no flame). I have a few of them, which I got from Wal-Mart for less then 20 bucks each. Under a tarp or in a closed garage they put off a surprising amount of heat. Easily enough to kick off a glue. Okay, a cold night down here may reach the mid 30's for an hour or two (once or twice a year if we're lucky), but the heaters will work under a tarp quite well, where you are too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Luckett Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 When gluing the scarfed planks for the lobster boat we shrouded the glued areas with plastic sheeting and set a small electric space heater underneath. The plastic made a tent for the heat and we used the fastest hardner (West 205?....cannot recall now). This worked very well and the glued joints were ready for installation in an hour or so. For those that do not know about this project, it was done in the winter near South Haven, Michigan. Up till that time I used the slow hardner to give myself pleanty of time but now know it is better to use the fastest and make smaller batchs....and work fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuildDre Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Here is one page with a chart on which hardner to use including tensil strengthand surface saturation. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=3760&familyName=WEST+System+105+Epoxy+Resin I'm on the learning curve with these adhesives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSmalser Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Epoxy does not stick to Titebond glues. Stripper glue lines are sufficiently narrow that epoxy will span them, but if you ever have to feather in a repair exposing more Titebond residue you'll have problems, and unsound repairs are dangerous. Unrepairable glues have no place in well-found boats. http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=6799 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Ok I have decided to build a PD Racer. Bob- I agree, but based on his first line, I stand by my answers. In this case, yes to both questions. I assume you are familiar with a PD racer? For THAT boat, the glue should be just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuildDre Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 I sanyone here familiar with this product? http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/Detail?no=90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 No- but that's more than the price Graham gets for a gallon and a half currently. Check with them over at B and B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuildDre Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 No- but that's more than the price Graham gets for a gallon and a half currently. Check with them over at B and B. Just looked at B and B site. I didn't see any adhesives for sale just plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Call or email them. They don't list a BUNCH of stuff, just plans. Talk to Carla, tell her Charlie told you to call for epoxy prices. They've also got a lot of marine hardware available at decent prices. Hey- it's just her and Graham that run the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Luckett Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Call or email them. They don't list a BUNCH of stuff, just plans. Talk to Carla, tell her Charlie told you to call for epoxy prices. They've also got a lot of marine hardware available at decent prices. Hey- it's just her and Graham that run the place. They are very nice folks and a pleasure to do business with. Once I work through my stockpile of West Systems epoxy I plan to start buying epoxy from B&B as well. That reminds me...I need to get my Spindrift's sail suite ordered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuildDre Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Which do you recommend? The slow or fast hardner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Luckett Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Since I work mostly in a cool/cold climate, I use the fast hardner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuildDre Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 if your interested. I found one brand that works down to 35 degrees. http://www.epoxyproducts.com/1_marineresins.html We will be building the 1st dinghy indoors in a heated cellar. We will need one that will allow extra time during the first one. Should I use the 206? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Luckett Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 I am ok with what I have been using, but thanks anyway. The other reason I started using the fastest harder is to shorten build time. What I do not know is how it behaves in a climate such as the Gulf Coast or out in the Southwest...(of the USA... Lots of folks on here from other parts ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuildDre Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 I don't mind taking it slow on the first one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Luckett Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 I don't mind taking it slow on the first one. What I learned the hot way: make lots of small batchs, one at a time, use up the mix, then make another batch. This keeps things from overheating. I had pots of expensive resin tossed into snow drifts to kill the fires, and then had a foam roller soak up so much that it started smoking too. I now use squeegees to spread the resin, and the little acid brushes for applying a thickened mix to joints. I never use the roller or paint brushes any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuildDre Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 I don't mind taking it slow on the first one. What I learned the hot way: make lots of small batchs, one at a time, use up the mix, then make another batch. This keeps things from overheating. I had pots of expensive resin tossed into snow drifts to kill the fires, and then had a foam roller soak up so much that it started smoking too. I now use squeegees to spread the resin, and the little acid brushes for applying a thickened mix to joints. I never use the roller or paint brushes any more. Good to know how hot epoxy gets.. Fires!! Now thats hot.. Getting delays building the jig for the dinghy this week while on vacation. The portable garage came down during the storm and I have to replace the poles. Also need to change four tie rods, idler arm and an upper ball joint on the truck to pass inspection. I hate delays. But it gives me time with the adhesive questions. I apreciate all the help I can get. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Epoxy heats itself up more and faster when: 1. the temperature is high (the components are warm) 2. it is in a container where the volume has all 3 dimensions significant (like a cup, vs. a pan where it spreads out) 3. a fast cure is used Things you can do to slow the heating down: 1. chill the ingredients or work space (I have actually stored the 2 components on ice in a cooler) 2. use a wide shallow container for mixing (the height dimension is significantly reduced) 3. pour it onto you work right away and then spread it out (if this is practical) 4. use the slow cure (if there is a choice with your brand) Any one or more of these can extend pot life or working time. Planning also helps use the stuff up before it kicks. Get everything ready to go before you mix. Like the old plasterer' joke: "Don't mix the plaster till you get to the top of the ladder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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