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Core Sound 20: Hull #103


Alan Stewart

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wwbaginski,

We don't have dedicated topping lifts.  What looks like topping lifts are actually just the main and mizzen halyards.  I untied the end of the halyard from the sail and moved it to attachment on the end of the sprit boom.   With the halyard on one end and and  the snotter on the other (and the downhaul still attached to the sail)  there is much control on the sprit boom.

Jeff,

We're very happy with the boat and its cabin.  We think the cabin is a success.  It is good living space inside, and has a number of other advantages.     

Experience so far:  We've day-sailed our CS20 a half-dozen times since March 1st when my son, Alan, and I took it through the EC'08.  My wife, Dawn, and I are aiming to spend a week sailing/camping on the NC coast some times during the next month or so.

    Space inside is good.  The berths are 7 feet long for stretching out.  The space is small of course but the headroom feels generous.  During the EC we prepared meals in the cabin, and took turns sleeping 2 or 3 hours at a time.  Once we dropped anchor and both slept in the cabin for 4 hours.  The space is fine for two people.  Alan and Dawn and I have all had opportunities to sleep in the cabin and found it very comfortable on therma-rest pads.   Of course, during the EC any sleep we could get felt like heaven -- probably could have slept comfortably anywhere and we did nap in the cockpit at times.  Dawn slept in it most recently and found it very comfortable.

    One of the things I like most about the cabin is that it stays very dry and is a great place to go to warm up or change into dry clothes.  It is a great place to toss things that we want to stay dry, but we try to take the time to keep -everything- in dry bags anyway.   The cabin also helps keep the cockpit dry when spray in coming off the bow. 

    Certainly a cabin changes your forward view from the cockpit but we've gotten very used to the cabin and found that reduced visibility is not an issue.  The cockpit is roomy enough that the pilot can find plenty of comfortable sitting positions.  The pilot / crew often sits up on the sides of the boat (hiking out) rather than sitting on the benches,  especially in better winds.  In very light air, slowly coming up to a dock the pilot might be standing.  We move around, the boat moves around, and there's a lot more to consider in the 360 degree view than any one tiny bit of the horizon.  In brief, seeing around the cabin is not a problem at all.

    As for aerodynamics, I can't give you any data on the effects of the cabin (vs. no cabin or some other cabin).   I don't think we sail directly up-wind as well as a dedicated regatta racer (e.g., flying scott, buccaneer, 505, thistle, lightning, etc.)  On the other hand general performance seems good. We sailed the 300 mile EC'08 in ~3.5 days. We  finished within an hour of an expertly-sailed Sea Pearl 21 (cat ketch with no cabin) that came in third,  and within 6 hours of Graham's EC 22 (cat ketch with cabin) that came in 2nd.  (A catamaran got 1st place.) 

    Design choices are loaded with trade-offs and compromises.  If you lower the height of the seats (berths) in the cabin then you can lower the roof,  but this shrinks the length and width of the seats (berths) due to the v-shaped bow.   If you sacrifice being able to sit upright in the cabin then you can lower the roof and keep the height of the seats (berths) to preserve the length and width of the sleeping area but then you have to crawl around in the cabin.   Alternatively you could put a sliding hatch over the companionway to allow sitting upright

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Thanks, Paul.  A very thorough analysis!  I hadn't realized that you kept the height of the berths even with the cockpit seats.  Thinking ahead (a little), I increased the camber of my foredeck to give a another inch or two of height for my big feet, but I still find it so uncomfortable moving around with my knees trapped under the foredeck that I've taken to sleeping in the cockpit on clear nights.  My footroom is reduced because I've settled on a 4" self-inflating pad to ease my lower back pain.  (I have a lift-up floorboard in the aft end that enables me to lay down corner-to-corner).  More and more I consider my cabin shelter a combination of spray dodger, privacy, dry space and kid place.

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Jeff,

The to-do list of problems to solve and things to repair, correct or improve on our CS20 is ridiculously long.  And it is supposedly "finished"!   I could easily spend ten full days on it right now. 

Seems the alternative would be to buy a stock plastic boat.  But where would be the fun in that!? 

It would be nice to achieve "perfect design", whatever that is, but the truely important achievement is experiencing the challenges and rewards of building, sailing, and trying to improve your own personalized, customized sail boat.  With your kids!  So I'd say you've got it exactly right, Jeff. 

(Memo to anyone considering building a boat:   

I know Jeff would agree that we both highly recommend the experience of building and customizing.  For those doing lots of camping a hard-top cabin is great.  The day-sailor probably doesn't need to dedicate space to a cabin and may want to opt for a larger, more flexible cockpit layout  -perhaps with some kind of Bimini-top sun shade.  Occasional campers and those who want to strip down to light-weight configuration for racing speed might prefer a removable dodger/pop-top cabin.  Keeping it as simple as possible with no sheltering will suit many.  Looks can be traditional or modern.  The options are endless... )

Yes the benches (berths) in our cabin are almost even with the cockpit seats.  They are about an inch or inch and a quarter lower than the cockpit seats.  Makes for lots of storage space under the births.  Going an inch or so lower would probably have been ok.

We are planning to do more finish work inside the cabin and will post some good photos of the inside after that.  In the meantime here are some old pics.

           

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Jiffy reefing for pilgrim will be pretty much just exactly like as described in Michalic's write-up.  I have the hardware, but haven't had the opportunity to set up the rig to install it.  I want to have the sails up before determining exactly where to put the clew tackle.  I anticipate that this will be a simple project.

I put topping lifts on Pilgrim using 1/8" ss wire with rope tails (adjustments are made from the clew ends of the sprit booms).  They work well, but would not be strong enough to use for hoisting objects aboard from the water.

The outboard ends of the sprits might get a little "busy" :) with sheet blocks, topping lift blocks and jiffy reefing cheek blocks all in the same vicinity, that's why I want to have the rig all set up before installing the jiffy reefing tackle.

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  • 3 months later...

  You let Alan and Taylor steal Dawn Patrol and you didn't come with us to Jordan today?  :o (don't tell me you didn't know we were sailing - It was 70 and the wind was blowing)  ;)

  Good fun was had by all.  It was breezy and there were three (Three?!?) boats out there.  We were accompanied by a Seapearl Tri and a Hobie 16.  There was also a gaggle of kayaks and a few hardy windsurfers.

  Cape Lookout would have been the place to be, though  ;D

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      Now THAT is cool!  .....unless, of course, you're trying to hide.          .

Larry, it is indeed a treat for your family/friends to be able to track your locations when you are sailing.  We see the SPOT as a pure pleasure, icing on the cake; it is wonderful to see SPOT data coming in, but if it doesn't then we don't worry.

Yes, Larry, hiding is an option!  ;D  Onboard you can turn the SPOT on or off. But usually you wouldn't want to do that except when at anchor.

    You also have the option of sending an occasional "ok" confirmation message to your family/friends,  or sending an "I'm ok but need help please come pick me up" message to your family/friends. 

      In the worst case,  you can send an SOS/911 alert which goes to your family/friends and to the SPOT response center.  The response center notifies the appropriate nearest rescue organization(s). 

Tom,  my personal experience and perception of the general concensus about the current SPOT system (still kinda new) is that it is good but not perfect.  I believe...

(1)  On the water (or driving down the highways), SPOT works very well attached to a boom or cabin roof on a sailboat because boats are usually in wide-open areas.  Works great on kayak decks too.  Boating/kayaking is one of its most successful applications.  Onboard,  SPOT does not work as well attached to your PFD  --too bad about that.  Attach it to a boom, or...  glue it to the top of your hat ?  ;)

(2)  Inland,  trees or mountains or other obstructions can have a negative impact on the ability of the SPOT to see its satelites.  (Similar issues when wearing it on your PFD when sailing.)  Hikers/backpackers report much more unreliability of SPOT than do boaters/kayakers.

(3)  You have the option of displaying the SPOT data in real time on a public display webpage.

For example, http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0ggfiiudDlSq9j1ZzAq9rT9xxqgdKzVja .  You can download the data (*.kml, *.gpx, or *.cvs file format) for use as waypoints on your GPS or for viewing in "Google Earth".  SPOT International maintains the data online for 30 days. 

(4)  Family/friends need to have a good understanding of what they can realistically expect from you and the SPOT so that it does not cause anxiety; e.g., dead batteries in the SPOT does not mean you are in trouble.

(5)  A SPOT may or may not be cost-effective depending on extent of usage and your needs (e.g., expeditions, races, etc.)  The SPOT unit is ~$150.  The full-service tier subscription with the international SPOT response center is about $150/year.

(6)  Yes you can loan it to any friend for their trip.  Designation of who receives the data and notifications is controlled via your online login at www.findmespot.com/en/. 

(7)  You still need a VHF radio. SPOT does not replace navigational equipment (GPS, charts, compass).  SPOT does not necessarily replace safety equipment you may need on some trips (e.g., Coast Guard approved PLB, EPIRB, VHF, ..., cellphone;  the CG has posted whitepapers about the pros and cons of various devices.)

Ken,  Just call it Christmas generosity!  ;D  Extra generous given that the weather inland here in the Triangle area did turn out to be 'perfect'  for Jordan Lake sailing.  I'm really really really really sorry we missed sailing with you all on the lake yesterday.

Weather at Cape Lookout this weekend was near-perfect, too, for Alan and Taylor.  Here is a link to weather underground's 'wundermap' for that area... 

http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/?lat=34.72546387&lon=-76.56835175&zoom=10&pin=Harkers%20Island%2c%20NC

... and a snapshot, below....

--Paul

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   You let Alan and Taylor steal Dawn Patrol and you didn't come with us to Jordan today?  :o (don't tell me you didn't know we were sailing - It was 70 and the wind was blowing)  ;)

   Good fun was had by all.  It was breezy and there were three (Three?!?) boats out there.  We were accompanied by a Seapearl Tri and a Hobie 16.  There was also a gaggle of kayaks and a few hardy windsurfers.

   Cape Lookout would have been the place to be, though  ;D

Actually the fog for the past few days has been so back that you needed a special shovel to remove it from the decks. :o Between the drizzle of rain and drizzly fog, you probably faired better than those folks. ON one of the days, the weather left a mill pond white out at high noon. But have no fear, I was hard at it working away while you were playing doing multi=tasking with the garden, getting ready for my spring fling and some wood, making round shapes out of straight ones.

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Tom,  my personal experience and perception of the general concensus about the current SPOT system (still kinda new) is that it is good but not perfect.  I believe...

--Paul

Paul,

Thanks for the detailed assessment.

Interesting detail you shared about being able to pass the SPOT to others for sharing when the opportunity presents.

All things considered, it seems more economical than the other tracking systems I've seen butwith no apparent downside.

Thanks again,

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Randy C.,

The rope armor on the edge of the CB is worth doing.  Very cool project as described by Tom and others.

A few pics of the rope-epoxy work on the CB of CS20 #103 can be found here...

http://picasaweb.google.com/alanosauras/Centerboard_CS20#

and a few pics of the completed CB are here...

http://picasaweb.google.com/alanosauras/CS20_christmas#

Nylon rope soaks up epoxy very well and very quickly if you submerge a coil of it in a container of freshly mixed epoxy.  Someone had suggested that air bubbles would emerge from the submerged rope if the container was placed in a vacuum.  We actually did that and found it unnecessary;  apparently there were no bubbles inside the submerged rope.  No need for a vacuum.  Have fun soaking your rope.  ;D

p.s.  We had already glassed the sides of the CB when we learned about the rope-epoxy idea, so we cut a groove in the edge between the two glass layers.  Cutting a groove should not be necessary if you put the glass cloth on -after- the rope.  As Tom noted, you can put the rope on "a small flat on the leading edge to match the diameter of the line I want to use."

--Paul 

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  • 2 months later...

Still thinking about centerboards.  Paul Riccelli's CS17 post was intriguing:

This is my centerboard tackle arrangement for Ray's CS-17. Okay maybe not much of a "rig innovation", but it does eliminate much tackle and about 12' of line.

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The board is shaped differently as is the case (original shapes shown in light blue). The benefit is the lack of a down haul and it's related tackle. No bungee cords, just an up haul and a weighted board. The top of the case is completely closed, no board arm or tackle attached to it. This leaves it free to lay out sleeping bags, etc. which was a desire of Ray's. I'm not sure if the arm would have interfered with sleeping much, Carla says it doesn't, but it sure is a cleaner look and has much less complication in the tackle. A 15 pound chunk of lead drops the board with authority, but it still can easily bounce over obstructions it might encounter.

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Looks nice without the downhaul and with the ability to cap off the top of the trunk entirely. The only downside, in my view, is that you can't force the board down when sideways friction is preventing it from dropping, so you'll have to be sure to turn off the wind (or into it) to reduce sideways pressure to let the board drop in some situations. We've noticed with ours (rigged with a downhaul) that even the bungee downhaul isn't strong enough to pull the board down if there is any sideways sailing pressure on the board. We have to manually grab the lever arm atop the board and push it down to deploy (or turn off the wind to de-power, at which point the board goes down easily, but you lose speed and headway for a few moments).

It also won't be as easy to visually check how much board is in the water, but I suppose you could mark the uphaul at regular intervals to see how much slack is paying out (= depth in water). So far, we've been happy with the conventional layout, but I'll be interested to hear how more builders like this modified design, if they try it.

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The board required about 15 pounds of lead to sink it, so I installed about 18 pounds. It drops with authority. The hoisting lanyard is marked at 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4's down positions, so you know how much board is deployed. These are just magic marker stripes on the lanyard at the cam cleat.

If I was to do it again, I'd move the pivot down, not up. This increases the leverage the case stringers have over the board to resist side loads and the amount of leverage the lanyard has on the board for hoisting. The current setup has 14.75" of leverage over the pivot. By lowering it I could get near 18" for a 20% improvement in the length of the "moment arm". This would also decrease the amount of tension required to haul the board up, which is comfortable, but on the high side at 15 pound of pull (static). I didn't want to go to a gun tackle for the board, which would have required 33% more line to pull up the board. With the whip tackle it presently uses, the total pull length is about 30" from full up to full down.

The pivot pin mounted externally (let into the keel and planking) would also prevent any leaks inside the boat.

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