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Table Saws


Bill

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Greetings...

Well, I didn't get the Unisaw for Christmas :cry: , so now I think it's time to go out and pick up a new machine (or used). I had a cheap (cheapest) craftsman I was using. My brother needed it and I put it in his garage. I was never happy with it. I will admit operator knowledge and lack of patience was a factor. The saw did cut wood. I think I will leave that saw there now and shop for one just a little better. I do not have the means to make a big jump up in equipment. I was thinking about something in the $400 dollar range for a cash outlay. I realize this isn't much for a decent table saw but, I think if I hunt and peck, and get some input, at least I can get more bang for my meager buck! $400 is the top I can go. Could you folks give me some input on how best to use it? If not new I am going to try and pick up a decent used machine that should be worth about twice that. In other words, what's a good $800 dollar machine to buy used for $400, or if I have to go new what should I look at for $400. I can build extension tables etc. I just need a good raw machine. Suggestions?

Thanks,

Bill

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Look for used Delta, Jet or Powermatic "contractor saws". I bought a new Jet contractor saw which I absolutely love, but new its just above your $400 price ($549 or something like that). If you can find them used, they will be about 20% less than that (they hold their value well.)

I had a 70's era Craftsman, and they are junk. The trunnions on the bottom, that hold the cast iron table to the saw itself, are aluminum, and the bolts creep constantly. If I took the time to set up the saw with the blade parallel to the miter slot each time I used it, it worked fine. I built my entertainment center that way. I even upgraded it with a kit to align it easier ... some hardened steel studs and brackets that allowed you to use an allen screw to move the table slightly. It made it easier, but it was still a pain. Just not worth it.

CAUTION: PERSONAL OPINION AHEAD!

Delta, Jet and Powermatic make good saws. Grizzly has some slightly less expensive, and I've heard good things about them, but I haven't had personal experience with them. If you run into an old Rockwell, check it out and buy it if its in good shape (they are the forerunner to Delta, and very well made ... but they are about 40 years old now).

Stay away from anything by Ryobi, Craftsman (now made by Ryobi, I think), Ridgid (made by Emerson, who used to make Craftsman) and any of the cheaper "table top" saws by anyone. They aren't worth it.

The contractor grade saws are pretty good from the three I mentioned. I bought the cheapest contractor saw from Jet, as it has the pressed steel side tables. It works great for my purposes, but I could have spent another $200 or so to get cast iron side tables. I just don't think its worth it at that level (its not quite like putting a fur coat on a pig ... which doesn't make the pig any prettier or happier ... but close, in my opinion). It is well balanced, the blade was within .005 of being true, the table top flat, and you can balance a nickel on end and turn it on and the nickel will stay there while the saw runs. It can cut 8/4 hardwood stock without a problem, but you may get some bogging down ripping long boards, especially if you aren't using a rip blade. The sawing capabilities I have with the Jet JWTS-10 (I think that's the model number) are duplicated in the Delta and Powermatic of the same size. (All three have cheaper "home" or "hobby" saws with 1 hp motors which are not worth the trouble ... they run in the high $300 range, but are no better than the saw you gave away, IMHO.)

BTW - my brother also has my old Craftsman.

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Excellent advice Frank. The contractor saws from Delta and the other's are quite good, particularly if you can find a good used one. You may as well also look for an aftermarket fence if you get a Delta. The saws are good, but the fences leave a lot to be desired.

I have an OLD Craftsman saw from sometime in the fifties- paid $150 for it. It's a great tool, but since then they pretty much turned to crap or as we call them "Crapsman" . The fence on that old saw is better than my Unisaw!!

Of course, I do love my old Delta Unisaw, except for the fence - It ain't worth beans:)

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My table saw is an old desk with a ryobi handheld circular saw bolted underneath it.

:oops:

My fence is the nearest piece of scrap with a straight edge on it.

Its off to the left on this photo with an old salad crisper from the fridge balanced on top of it.

It works about as well as you expect, but the price was right , and I did manage to rip my stringers on it.

[attachment over 4 years old deleted by admin]

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Simon,

I certainly would never laugh at your set up. I have found that the tools do not necessarily make the craftsman. Knowing how to use what you have does. In the intrim of not using my older table saw I have become quite a bit better with the circular saw and my router and sometimes amazed myself at what can be done with the simplest of items if you just look at the problem with an open and patient mind. I think if you check up on some history of my area in the world you will hear of "Yankee Ingenuity" and the ability to overcome obstacles by many of our old sailors. Reading some history about your part of the world I see much of the same..we have a lot in common! I'm currently reading about the Syd/Hobart race (Knockdown)..jeeze you guys are tough!

Cheers,

Bill

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Yep - I built most of my boat using a Swiss Army Knife and a couple of rolls of Gaff Tape.

My next boat will be made from Aluminium cans welded up with a 5c piece and a car battery .... :P:P:D

Seriously though I agree - having the right tools makes it that much easier to do a good job though. 8)

[attachment over 4 years old deleted by admin]

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I had a Grizzly, basic full size table saw with the cast iron wings, about $375. It was a great tool until Tropical Storm Isadore and the swampy Louisiana climate turned it into rust. I've since bought an aluminium and plastic Craftsman, to endure the humidity here. The Grizzly is a great bargain, a real, heavy tool. The Craftsman is not nearly as good, at $200, but it should survive the harsh climate a little better than the iron stuff. Ditto the Rockwell suggestion, if you can find one, great tools, they.

JT

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I also live near the beach, and fought rust on my old table saw. Bought that expensive spray-on aircraft preservative and everything. Then someone told me about Johnson's Paste Floor Wax, and a little jingle to remember. You apply it once a day for a week then once a week for a month. And then once a month for life.

Works well, and I must admit I don't get to it every month. But it works well just the same.

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Thanks folks..

For all the tips and answers.. I'm leaning toward the Jet. I can get it locally and I snuck around the web and the reviews are pretty good. People seem to be pretty happy with them. I tend to get these ideas in my mind and have a "I want it NOW" attitude, so we shall see. I just hope the price is something I can handle. I will look through our local used listings for used first, but used sometimes scares me. (missing parts, abuse) things that don't show up until you get home a week later..no warrenty...et al. I'll let ya know what happens...

Simon,

About four thicknesses of exposed film negative material taped to the front of a cheap pair of safety goggles will get ya by for a welding helmet, tie a wet bandana around your head and you'll be good to go... :D

cheers,

B.

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Man, you guys and your fancy tools. I use a shopsmith made sometime around 1954. I have most of the attachments and while not the finest of tools, I feel a little like Simon making do with what you have, it works fine and with patiance much can be done with it. I have been useing Johnson's Paste wax for years and it works very well. It doesn't attract dust and prevents corrosion. The youth of today doesn't understand paste wax. Perhaps we have failed to pass on this valueable tridition and this would be to our discredit. :roll:

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Nelson,

I've had a Shopsmith for about 12 years now. A few years back I upgraded it with the beefier 520 fence package. It is a great tool. It has it's limitations, but for a single car garage shop it can't be beat. I have to agree that one of the best things about it is making you slowdown and think about the project, plan your cuts, to minimize switching setups.

Just haven't had to use it much on the Weekender.

John M.

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Guest Anonymous

I have at one time owned a few table saws. I once had a unisaw (10") , but I liked the General 10" better. I sold the general and ended up building my replacement. That was 15 years ago. I use that saw every day and have made a living with it all this time. It is funny looking and not particularly portable, but does perfect work. The only thing it does not do is angle cuts. I have to get clever when I want to do that. But, when you think about it 95% of most cuts are with the blade at 90degrees to the table. I made mine so it was always square...it is, and always will be.

The main thing at the time was it was cheap to build and actually does as good or better of a job than either of my old saws.

The fence is some old heavy electrical hanger stuff....mixed with whatever to come up with a strong, fast, calibrated fence that is adjustable for angle when needed. As good as any after market fence I have used...and I have owned and used many.

Steel and birch ply and some good machining. It has a one inch arbor with heavy pillow blocks. I use 12 and 14" blades.

Shop1.jpg

The mechanism for raising and lowering the blade is a trailer jack crank thing.

Shop2.jpg

Shop4.jpg

Sop3.jpg

The dust collection hose fits onto a thing on the 'back' of the box and works very well. I think if I were to do it again, I would mount it closer to the bottom of the box. It gets the fine airborne stuff and that was my main concern. I just shovel out the box now and again.

Shop5.jpg

Most folks are surprised at the tools I have always used. They always expect some fancy whatever, but I just buy what I can afford and build the rest. My planer is a cheesy little Taiwanese thing....when it wears out I will get another. It has been fine for 13 years or so. I once had this big heavy 16" job. Nice, but wasted on me. I sold it and got some other stuff.

I also once restored this HUGE old 16" jointer. That was a joy to use. But ever time I had to move or even just move the thing within the shop, it was a major production. I now have a Taiwanese 8" machine that is perfect for what I do.

I have used some of the import table saws and they are just fine as well. I have found that for the money they can't be beat. Anything that is not up to snuff...just fix it. I have had castings remachined flat (for example).

It's like cars and motorcycles and boats. Some are good and some are bad...you just run what you can afford.

Cheers, TT

www.timtone.com

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2 friends of mine just bought Grizzlis. They paid around 800-900 each. They love them and think they are great saws.

I personally use my grnadfather's old Delta, circa 1948. He paid around $68 brand new, I still have the receipts. This saw is only and 8 1/4 but it is my favorite saw of the two I own. I have a Craftsman 10", the only thing nice about it is the 42" Beismier fence (which is worth more than the saw).

I am always looking for a twin to the old Delta, as I would snap it up in a second. Still use the factory fence and it is absolutely true. :)

I also have his 4" jointer, circa 1948, cost about $70. It is also a solid workhorse!!!

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Wow, lot's of really neat variations going on here... I think I'm going to go with the Jet 10" Contractors saw. ($549.00) I went into my local Woodworkers warehouse yesterday and drooled around the place. The saw, from what I can see, Is just as good as the delta, and actually is a little heavier in steel. It will cut all the same cuts. I think on the real high end, Delta would be my choice, but I feel Jet will be just a bit more bang for the buck in the mid range saws. I haven't read a bad review yet. Assembly according to some, can be frustrating, but I figure that's a one time thing so I can handle it. It will be kinda interesting trying to heft it into the basement though. Another guy mentioned he opened the box and took it part by part into his basement. I was wondering though, since I will be right there at the store, is there anything else I will NEED to buy, or have onhand besides the saw itself when I pick this thing up. Also are there any suggestions on blades? Usually saws come with a cheap one that would be replaced anyway. There is a 50.00 rebate thing going on right now so that will help offset the cost. The other item I thought might be nice to have with it is the Tenoning Jig. Is it worth having on hand? Or has "Norm" got to me :)

Well, I'm off to the basement now, I have to make room for my new toy...

Thanks...

Bill

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Ray,

Do they (Freud) just sell one type of thin kerf blade? TPI? Is there a certain one that I should be looking at? I was thinking about going thin kerf. I put a kerf blade on my circular saw and I really like it alot better than the old blade. How much do they usually cost..(average)...

B.

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