Scott Dunsworth Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Thats what I melted down the last two days. About 5 hours total time. I decided to melt it before I am ready to pour the ballast. It is in nice bread pan ingots now, clean and shiny. I skimmed a nearly a five gallon bucket of clips and dirt from 470 finished pounds of lead. The next melt down in the big tank should be a whole lot cleaner. I understand how to make the mold for the ballast, but how do you mold the board tip? I know I will have to cut the tip of the board off to use for the mold shape, but what kind of material do you use to make the mold. Plaster paris maybe? Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Scott- for the Princess I built the mold from 2 x lumber. I used a 2 by 6 as the base and then 2 bys for the sides. The forward end where it tapers I set up a slanted board and added 45 degree wedges inside to make a roujgh shape. For the rear where it slopes to meet the wooden keel, I cut the angle and screwed on a sloped piece. The wood charred just a tad but not enough to hurt anything. After it cooled I just used a hand plane and planed the nose to shape- Lead planes like butter. This is the only shot I can find of the forward part- The lead in there is molten and ready for the pour. The other shows the rear end.. I also threw in an overall shot of the entire setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Potts Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Charlie those pics look really cool! Scott this site has stuff somewhere about green sand casting. Every where else on the site is pretty cool too http://www.lindsaybks.com/prod/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dunsworth Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Thanks for the info. I haven't had a chance to check out the web sites yet. I am glad to hear that shaping the lead is not that difficult. How does it drill? I would think you would have to go very slow so as to not build up any heat. As for the mold for the center board tip; Ray you don't pour lead in a wet mold do you? :shock: I guess the sand would let it vent but I don't know. Charlie did the Princess have a lead tip on the centerboard? If so how did you mold it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Scott, I lubricate the drill bit with kerosene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 no lead tip- it has a round chunk of lead in the center low down. Let me put something here- never- NEVER- NEVER pour molten lead into or around ANYTHING wet!!! moisture in the mold or moisture on lead being added to the crucible will vaporise to hot steam INSTANTLY and cause an erruption of molten lead- it can shoot into the air a LONG way and or splatter all over you and every thing around you.. Make SURE the lead and the mold is dry. WEAR LONG SLEEVES, preferably of cotton rather than synthetic, long pants, shoes (or boots), heavy gloves and a face plate. Yes- lead drills easily and yes you should go slowly. One of the best choices is an auger bit. Back to the CB lead- cut the hole, probably about 6 inches across, drive some large headed nails in edgeways. Lay the board down on a flat surface and our the molten lead in. over pour so it comes above flush, then when it cools just plane it flush and glass over it. Not a big deal as long as you work safely. In this pic I'm using a propane torch to heat the plug of unmelted lead in the pour pipe- took a minute or so and then WHOOSH!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Ray- I can't disagree on the casting sand- Used to do a bunch of foundry work casting aluminum and that's all we used was sand. BUT- VAST difference between sand with just the right moisture content, and water or other significant moisture on the lead or in the mold . When I was redoing the keel on Necessity, our 21 foot sloop, I was adding 150 pounds to the ballast using molten lead- the very first pour found a pocket of water down in there somewhere and we had a volcano, big time. When I was melting the lead for the keel on the Princess, I had a shovel full of wheel weights from a second bucket. Those just happened to be wet, un-noticed by me- Again an erruption and that time it probably blew 30 feet in the air- rained molten lead all over. I STILL have some stuck to the back of that shirt. So my cautions stand- Be SURE there is no moisture in the lead as you add it, or inside the mold, cause it'll cause you grief. And wear some protective clothing - COTTON, not synthetics - it won't melt onto you. Also, for a simple shape such as the Princess keel, there's really little need to go to the trouble of putting together a cope, drag, sand, and whatever for a mold to cast in- the wooden one works just fine. I also visited a boat builder over in Josephine Ala who welds up steel molds for keels he makes somewhat frequently. He includes a bit of draw and the casting just pops out since it shrinks a bit when it cools. For a more complex shape, such as a bulb, certainly a mold is needed and I would agree totally with you. But the Princess keel is square, and smooth - no curves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 LOL- Yep. In my second post I told him about cutting a hole and pouring lead in for the CB weight. I find we usually only disagree in details Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Charlie: What are the dimensions of that little smelting pot you built and how many pounds of lead will it hold? It certainly looks sturdy and stable. What size pipe did you use? Would you go smaller, larger or was that about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 it's 10 x 10 by 16 deep with a 1 1/2 inch pipe. That pipe size is just right far as I'm concerned. It'll hold maybe 600 pounds but I wouldn't want it that full- it would be up to the edge. 500 pounds easily though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Charlie is right about moisture when pouring lead. Boy! 30' in the air, I have never had that much excitement. I have done lots of small lead casting in plaster of paris molds. When I discovered lead casting as a kid, I cast lots of fishing sinkers with split plaster molds with a removable wire to cast the hole through the sinker. I cast my drafting ducks many years ago in a split plaster mold with a copper nail inserted into the mold, head inside. After casting, the nail was bent and trimmed to length to fit onto the spline. The trick is to let the plaster dry for a couple of days and then put it in the oven to dry it out. I have poured large keels in a molds made out of a very weak mix of cement. Before pouring hot lead into the mold I would light a fire in the mold to remove most of the moisture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 lol- Yeah Graham - it was SPECTACULAR!!! I had already melted about 150 - 200 pounds, changed to a new bucket of wheel weights, dumped them out, scooped up a shovel load and dumped it in. WOW!!!! That stuff errupted like a volcano- spewed molten lead up and onto the top of the shelter I had over the Meridian sitting ten feet away. The top of THAT was 15 feet up. Incidently and quite by accident, just two days ago I pulled out an old long sleeved work shirt cause the temps were chilly here- happens to be that same shirt I had on in the pics and there are STILL splatters of lead on the back I am SO glad I had the face shield on, but then I refuse to work lead without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Charlie: One of the reasons I asked about the volume was I've heard that it's much safer to start off with the whole amount of lead weights in the pot when you start. To never, ever add wheel weights to a pot of hot lead for exactly the reasons you describe. So the next question is, what is the wheel weight to melted lead weight volume? 2:1? 4:1? As in how big of a tank would you need to put the entire 500 pounds of weights in at once? Or, I suppose you could do what Scott is doing, make a bunch of pure lead ingots from smaller pours along the way. Once you know you have what you need, drop them all in and light the fire. BTW....I called my local scrap dealer today. They by lead for 5 cents per pound. They don't sell it. So far, one tire store wants 20 cents per pound for used wheel weights. What are others paying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 I think I ran about 120 pounds of weights per 100 pounds of melted lead, but I dealt with a store who I deal with regularly and they gave me GOOD lead I have no problem adding more wheel weights either- Once I had the first problem I scooped up a shovel load and laid it across the top of the crucible to heat up. Didn't have any more problems and my buckets were stored under my house- still don't know where that water came from. A part of my lead was also from a buddy who is a gun smith. He cleans his bullet trap periodically and gives me the lead. The wheel weights I've been getting have run .15 pound, or $15.00 hundred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkisting Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 You all may have seen this before, but here's an informative link on using wheel weights: http://www.rutuonline.com/html/wheel_weights.html This gentleman seems to think $0.10 - $0.15 per pound is a fair price to pay for wheel weights. He gives advice about how to set up relationships with tire stores, etc. to collect the weights. Anyway, thought I'd add it to this thread. Does "antimony" need to be added to wheel weights for the P22 ballast? Seems like that would only be necessary for a much larger project, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dunsworth Posted March 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 I ended up with about 16 pounds of clips and dirt per 5 gallon bucket of weights. My buckets weighted 150 pounds full. Price I paid was from 15 to 20 cents a pound. But I had two places that gave me the weights. So I ended up having $43 dollars and 1/3 a 20lb. tank of propane invested in 470 pounds. The main reason I made the small pours was to clean up the lead and not to have to add lead to the molten bath on the big batch. I worked around molten aluminum for 22 years and I have seen explosions that have taken a life and many very serious injurys. Anyway with what I have seen working around aluminum even a small pop will sent me running for the hills. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Niemann Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Thanks guys for a very interesting and informative thread. I am not planning to add any lead to "Lively" my CS 17 but you never know what boats you may be building in the future. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dunsworth Posted March 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 I cut out a hole in the centerboard today and filled it with lead. TWICE!!! First time it was bubbling like crazy the all of the sudden the plywood on the bottom side sprung a leak. After cleaning up the lead, fixing the plywood a little tighter to the centerboard all when well. Charlie I cut a hole in the board and instead of adding a few nails I ran a rabbit bit in my router around the inside of the hole. It made a nice key way to hold the lead in. I got about 45 to 50 pounds in it. I have a question is the ballast mold going to bubble and boil bad? Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 yes, it will- plan to over fill it. In fact, it's always a good idea to over fill lead molds slightly since lead shrinks as it cools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Now THERE'S an idea. Thanks Ray and should I say "duh - Shoulda thought of that myself";) Which is why I keep telling people - when someone tells you they know it all , run, don't walk to the nearest exit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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