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P22 construction & modeling

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Guest Oyster

I like round sterns. 8) Many round sterns have been built with great success, especially with hard chine boats.

As a side note, I visited a fellow building one today. He is in the stage and has finished pouring his leaded keel, and WOW!!! he did a wonderfull job. His custom boiler tank worked mighty fine. His boat is coming out wonderfull. His building area leaves a lot to be desired for most folks, but his patience transfering over to the product as it sits now, far exceeeds my expectations.

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Guest Joe, The Deep Boatbuilder

In retrospect' date=' I'm kind of glad the accident happened to destroy the previous model (although Joe is still peeved at me)... this model is much more accurate to the true shape... built exactly according to the steps which the real P22 will require for completion. .[/quote']

Peeved,!!??

Well Geesh Wes, After all that hard work I did and you go and step on it . Two left feet I tell you. Good thing I am so agile and athletic or I might get stepped on.

Then you oops and say you built the boat! All that labor of mine you took as your own. At least you did correct yourself after other Boatbuilder stood up for me!

anyone needing proof that Wes didn't build MY boat need only click here for documentary evidence of who the builder was!

http://www.roguepaddler.com/princess.htm

And now I browse the forum and see your actually happy you stepped on my boat. Hah! Just wait till you see this months phone bill!!!

The again you lapse into taking credit for my Build. (Which need I remind you, you stepped on!) Saying that this is your second go around at building in scale.

Geesh, I ask you, Wouldn't you be steamed?

No wonder I have such a bothered look in the photos you snuck as I sat in "Your" boat. Your Boat indeed , I 'd like to see you get in it!

Although I must admit that curved transom does look nice, I might try it out myself if I build MY boat again, Unless you want to really make up and offer me the boat once your done.

I don't know, I think I will go play songs with the touch tone dialing again.

Joe!

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Wes,

I like the looks of the round stern but I think it is too much of a change. However, a slightly rounded stern might be the best answer. Try putting a 3-4" arch in the transom and extend the line of the bottom out to meet it. However, any change would move the rudder aft which would affect the balance of the boat. Moving the rudder aft 3-4" would probably be acceptable.

One great thing about Graham's boats are the practical and functional design. Any significant changes must be thought out carefully.

On another matter, I would like to see you and Joe working together again. You owe him a big apology. And why not build him a new boat to replace the other one? Joe seems to be a great person and you are lucky to know him. Even tough he is angry with you now, he thinks a great deal of you too.

Buy him a beer and tell him you're sorry. A good friend is worth too much to let anything stand in the way.

My 2 cents worth, Garry

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Hey Joe the Deep Boatbuilder.... Would you like me to send a real picture of yourself so you can set it up as your avatar? (Or you could just snag the one from the website... see below) Your post really cracked me up, although I have to say it freaked me out to see it at first, for now I find myself wondering how you managed to climb all the way down from your shelf and break into my computer to start posting messages! (Apparently you've been using the phone, too? To call who?!) Very funny stuff.

Garry, I like your idea of adding some gentle curvature to the stern. My only concern would be that if I add only a few inches of curvature, it might look less like it was planned, and more like I just screwed up the building process! :) I'm sure no one would have trouble believing I'd be stupid enough to bend the transom during the glue up. ;)

Wes

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Guest Joe, The Deep Boatbuilder
Hey Joe the Deep Boatbuilder.... Would you like me to send a real picture of yourself so you can set it up as your avatar? (Or you could just snag the one from the website... see below) Your post really cracked me up' date=' although I have to say it freaked me out to see it at first, for now I find myself wondering how you managed to climb all the way down from your shelf and break into my computer to start posting messages! (Apparently you've been using the phone, too? To call who?!) Very funny stuff.

Wes[/quote']

Well Wes I got the pic off of your computer but haven't been able to figure out how to shrink it down small enough to make an avatar. So Yes, please post an appropriate sized one if you could. I did figure the avatar I chose is a good alter ego of me.

I actually like this one better though, shows off my athletic physique. Barbie has been checking out the site you know after she heard of my exploits and mostly that is who I have been calling. I must confess that the night you stepped on my boat and never said Boo to me I was pretty low and spent the better part of the night playing the blues on the touch tone phone, at least untill that lady came on speaking some oriental language.

Climbing up and down from the shelf wasn't too bad, I didn't get this physique ort keep it by just sitting on the shelf all day you know. I do have a life when your not around after all.

And hacking thecomputer was no big trick as I have watched you often enough. I must say though thatthe keyboard is a bit of a hassle. Do you know how long it takes to type a letter when your less than 10 inches tall? Shoot, getting form the L to the s takes a bit of time.

A blackberry would be a heck of a help.

I have been thinking about our boat today. I get to use it since you broke mine you know, But I will acknowledge your the builder of it. I thought I could maybe fit in some auxilary propulsion if you would leave a small propeller, a shaft and one of those big thick rubber bands for me. I just need to figure out some sort of shaft brake system for it. It could serve two purposes, I could step on the brake a lot to stop the prop and save power saved up, or I could use the brake a little for going slow. And in Wooden Boat Magazine, there was a metal shroudlike a prop kort that would act also as the rudder for directional flow of the discharge jet, and could be closed up completely in order to reverse the jet flow and hence give me reverse.

I have been thinking a bit too of settling down with someone, and I think it would be neat to go out on my Honeymoon on the Princess 22 just like you did on your Pocket cruiser.

post-0-129497647953_thumb.jpg

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Guest Oyster

I did see one yesterday that was pretty darn nice for sitting in a fellow's backyard, though.

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Hey Joe, I can resize it for you, but what size should an avatar be? I don't know how to set one up, or else I'd have one myself. Let me know and I'll re-post a properly sized pic--the one you selected showing off your physique.

Okay, so here's the updated model pics. Almost finished laying out the bulkheads and longitudinals for the interior... Starting to look like the real deal now.

By the way... that's twice now that Joe and Oyster's posts have shown up adjacent to each other... they keep showing up in the same places... hmmm... like Clark Kent and Superman. ;) Am I getting warm?

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Guest Oyster
By the way... that's twice now that Joe and Oyster's posts have shown up adjacent to each other... they keep showing up in the same places... hmmm... like Clark Kent and Superman. Am I getting warm?

Dream on, Wes. :roll: Just trying to understand the jest of this informative posting at the expense of a nice boat. Later

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Oyster, do you have any pics of the boat you referred to in the previous post? (the one that impressed you in the fellow's backyard)

Also, I'm still trying to figure out what this means: "Just trying to understand the jest of this informative posting at the expense of a nice boat." Hope you didn't think I was making a jest about something you said... I just thought you might be "Joe the Deep Boatbuilder" since your posts were adjacent to his. No offense intended or anything like that.

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Oyster' date=' do you have any pics of the boat you referred to in the previous post? (the one that impressed you in the fellow's backyard)

Also, I'm still trying to figure out what this means: "Just trying to understand the jest of this informative posting at the expense of a nice boat." Hope you didn't think I was making a jest about something you said... I just thought you might be "Joe the Deep Boatbuilder" since your posts were adjacent to his. No offense intended or anything like that.[/quote']

Joe the Deep Boatbuilder isn't Oyster ... a little detective work at Joe the Deep Boatbuilder's website will reveal his alter-ego. Its a little bit of fun, and so long as people don't get bent out of shape (or Graham doesn't mind), I think its fine.

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a little detective work at Joe the Deep Boatbuilder's website will reveal his alter-ego

Frank, The website listed for Joe is mine (www.roguepaddler.com/princess.htm), and of course I did write the original article about Joe the builder (which the website points to). But I'm not the person logging on as "Joe the Deep Boatbuilder" if that's what you're suggesting. That's why I guessed it was Oyster, which apparently I was wrong about... and I sincerely hope I didn't offend him by guessing so... I was just speculating and didn't see any harm in it.

Hmmm... as for Joe's identity, the plot thickens. Just to be safe, I've bound and gagged the real Joe to see if he's actually the culprit. I guess if the posts stop, we have our man. If not, the mystery continues. ;)

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Guest Joe, The Deep Boatbuilder

Hah, Such foolishness in Wes's head, Ropes and gags didn't stop Houdini, and neither will it me!

I slip out, I type and I return and replace the ropes.

Yeah Wes, Notice the smirk on my face whenever you look at me.

You did watch Toy Story didn't you? Of course you did.

And Oh the things I could share about you. Tie me up, Geesh.

I am going to hve to talk to Anna about this. Maybe she can show Wes the error of his ways.

Wes, read my quote and ponder on it.

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Jake, good eye... it is balsa that was used in the boat that "Joe" built. As I rebuild the model (the pictures on this thread), I am using birch plywood from the local hobby shop. Heavier, stiffer, and more expensive, but also not as fragile. Not sure which way is better, but working with the balsa is definitely quicker since you can cut out all the shapes with a razor-knife instead of having to cut them with a saw as I have been doing with the birch.

The downside of balsa is that when cutting with the grain, it splits very easily so you have to use a good straight edge and careful pressure... also, sometimes you just get a bad piece of balsa that is absolutely intent on flaking apart, and usually it doesn't happen until after you've gone to great lengths to layout the piece carefully and cut most of the perimeter!

The downside of the birch (at least the 3/32" thickness I used) is that it is so stiff it takes a LOT of fussing around to prevent unfair curves and to keep glue joints from popping apart before they have time to cure fully. It gets easier if you have a decent assortment of clamps on hand, which I didn't have at first (had to finally dig them out of storage in the garage when I finally got exasperated enough with trying to use tape to "clamp" the pieces in place). I think the smart compromise might be to use 1/32" or 1/64" birch plywood, which is far more flexible and also thin enough that you could probably cut the shapes out with a very heavy-duty fine-tooth scissors instead of a saw. A razor-knife might work too.

I think Dale used 1/64" birch in his model, so perhaps he can chime in with some comments on its workability, etc.

If you're going to build a model for layout or interior design purposes, I would recommend scaling it to be at least 24" long... closer to 36" is even better. The original model that "Joe" built was a bit too small (at 19" LOD) to do the intricate work for laying out the interior. The new model (about 26" LOD) is just large enough that I can more easily get my hand in the cabin area to glue in stringers, cut hatches, etc. As with the full-size boats, of course, you also have to think ahead a few steps to save yourself from trying to glue things in at awkward angles later.

Aside from the dovetail saw (for the birch... otherwise, a razor-knife for balsa), the glue gun (for tacking or spot-welding tricky pieces in place), an assortment of small clamps, and a strong carpenter's glue (Elmer's carpenter's exterior grade, in my case), I've found it extremely useful to have a block-plane and sharp chisels (for shaping/refining the birch pieces) and also a dial calipers (for taking precise measurements to fit odd-shaped curves or tapering spaces).

Let me know if there's any other questions you have about modeling. I'm new to the process myself, so I'm learning as I go. Great fun, though... and a good way to scratch the boat-building itch.

Guess I should rename this thread to include the word "modeling" in the title...

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Guest Joe, The Deep Boatbuilder

I am using birch plywood from the local hobby shop. Heavier' date=' stiffer, and more expensive, but also not as fragile.

+If you're going to build a model for layout or interior design purposes, I would recommend scaling it to be at least 24" long... closer to 36" is even better. The original model that "Joe" built was a bit too small (at 19" LOD) to do the intricate work for laying out the interior. ..[/quote']

But if your not planning on stepping on the Model, balsa is plenty strong.

And I had no problem with the intricate work myself/

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Jake, I know the little block planes you're talking about. I used to have one of those and it came in amazingly handy for trim work when I was building my cedar-strip kayak. I'll have to track down another one someday, as I always find myself coming across small and intricate bits of woodwork, wishing I had that 1" block plane on hand.

Geez, you are all such fans of Joe! I suppose you're right, he's been through a lot. The wife was asking me this morning why he was all tied up and gagged. I think even she is a little miffed at my treatment of Joe, so perhaps I should let the little guy go free. Garry's suggestion to buy Joe a beer was a good one, but I'm not so sure a beer will be enough to heal the wounds between us now... he won't even look at me anymore, or when he does, it's only with that icy stare. :(

(Just got to thinking... anyone who stumbles across the middle of this thread without proper context is going to think we're all a bunch of crazies. Then again, maybe we are.)

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