Sweating

[Greg Luckett]

LOL, the electric is only used at the dock....and often while working in the boat while on the hard. I will try to get some projects done this weekend but must work around the 20F and snow.

The cold while underway is bearable as long as I can get hot coffee or cocoa to drive away the chill. Wool clothing and blankets are the real trick to keeping warm.

[john bowen]

Ray, you got a link for that?

[john bowen]

Found it.....

http://www.astrofoil.net/astrofoil.insulation.home.html

[john bowen]

I have sent an E to the makers of astrofoil. Can't wait for there response :roll: Will let you all know what thay have to say.

[edt]

This stuff works. I have a tailer with an extension with a queen sized bed. First time we used the trailer when it went down to freezing or a little below that bed was cold. I insulated under the mattress with a product that looks very much like the astrofoil. It makes a very noticeable difference.

Ed

[ricardo]

oh, problems...around here sweating is what happens to you - not to the hull skin - all year round. ok, in south southeast areas 90% of the year...but it happens and it's a pain. insulation and not heating seems to be the answer to me. and it's always a paliative not a final solution.

[Tom Lathrop]

Metal reflective foils have been in use for many years. To get the greatest positive effect from this material, it must have air space on each side and some way for the reflected heat to get out of the system. If the foil is in contact with another layer, much of the "reflected" heat will transfer by conduction to that other layer and the advantage is largely lost.

There ain't no free lunch. The claim on the website that most heat gain is from radiated sources is true but only under a narrow set of conditions. In a boat overhead with the foil contacting both hull and liner, a lot of the effect will be lost.

It still may be worth using this foil, but don't expect the results they claim in most cases. There are other foils with closed cell foam in the center which would be more durable since bubble wrap is subject to popping if hit, as every kid among us knows.

[Greg Luckett]

I recently received the 1995-2004 Tech Reference Library For Boat Owners. The 1997 DIY Boat Owner magazine, 1997 #3 (fall) has a good article on cabin/boat heaters. The artical is titled, "Stoking the Home Fires Below" It references and compares 9 different brands.

In the DIY projects in that same magazine is a flower pot heater....maybe what Charlie is talking about?

[Tom Lathrop]

Ray,

I did not mean to imply that the foil would not work to prevent condensation. Apparently it does not take a lot of insulation to do that. I have had one of those boats that have all interior hull surfaces covered on the inside with a synthetic carpet material. While we thought it ugly and tore much of it out, it did seem to prevent condensation.

The information I gave related to instructions from the manufacturer on installation of multiple layer reflective foil insulation used in homes for a long time. They require minimum spacing on both sides for maximum effect. It makes engineering sense to me. Any flexible closed cell foam placed in the overhead between the hull and liner might work as well as the foil material.

[lsearle]

Two words - cork tiles. The coarsest finish you can get, preferably pre-proofed or use a clear sealer before glueing on with something that won't give you nightmares if you ever have to replace one, i.e. PVA or strong contact cement.

Do not use epoxy!

You can paint them if you want to change the colour, we can get them here with various tinted colours, e.g. greens, blues etc.

The second part of the solution is a small Mini-Cat catalytic heater using white spirit. Don't know what you guys call it over there.

Third part - a big dorade forward on the boat and some sort of windsock or chute in nylon fitted to any hatch after the mast.

Good luck,

Lawrie Searle

[Frank Hagan]

The second part of the solution is a small Mini-Cat catalytic heater using white spirit. Don't know what you guys call it over there.

I'm not sure what its called in the States either; but I do remember seeing something for use in kerosene stoves that has less odor. I'll have to check in the camping section next time I'm in a store.

I was thinking of "white gas" but that's a different chemical (with a very low flash point, and wouldn't be good for use in a stove or heater).

[CHUCK N]

Coleman makes a lot of stoves and heaters that use Coleman fuel/white

gas

[john bowen]

OK, so I spaced out for awhile.

Here is the reply I got from them. I liked the ending: "or would like to place an order." :shock: :wink:

_____________________________________________________________

theloopdloop@earthlink.net

Subject: Re: Contact Request

Date: Dec 5, 2005 5:50 PM

Hi John,

Thanks for the inquiry! Our original ASTROFOIL (.37/s.f.) will actually perform quite well in a boat application as you described. It is 5/16" thick, and will give 97% reflectivity in addition to the conduction & covection protection that is signified by R values, which is why it achieves such a higher level of performance than traditional mass insulations. It also is an absolute moisture barrier, and eliminates condensation. It will work wonderfully under floors, in walls, and in ceilings. Let me know if you have any other questions, or would like to place an order!

Thank you,

Jeff Havener

Heartland Insulation Supply

1-800-798-FOIL (3645), x201

insulate@astrofoil.net

www.astrofoil.net

___________________________________________

REFLECT-IT Premium Grade Radiant Barriers

($.18/s.f.) for attics are a relatively easy & inexpensive

way to substantially reduce energy costs by at least

20%-25%! The cheapest & best thing you can do for

your house to increase both efficiency & comfort year

round. For more information, go to

http://www.astrofoil.net/astrofoil.radiant.barrier.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

**Please include all prior email communication in each reply, so that all discussion can be reviewed. Thanks**

----- Original Message -----

From: theloopdloop@earthlink.net

To: insulate@astrofoil.net

Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 9:22 PM

Subject: Contact Request

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Contact Information

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Name: John Bowen

Email Address: theloopdloop@earthlink.net

Question or Application Description:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This may send you for a loop? But, my question is this: Would it be practical to use your product in a marine environment? I\'m a member of a boatbuilding Forum and a discussion of insulation has come up. Not the hull but, under deck and cabin ceiling/side, areas. Where not only wheight but, space must maintian a minimum. The deck and cabins are constructed with 1/4 to 1/2\" plywood. As a common, 1/2\" foam is used (sandwiched). We do not, so much look for flotation in these areas. Condensation is a factor. I thankyou for your time and look forword to your reply(really). John Bowen (Who knows, this could be a new line for you (Smiling)

[Greg Luckett]

John,

Why not the boat ceilings too?

Thanks.

[john bowen]

Greg, I think you ment the hall, for I mentioned the cieling of the cabin and fordeck areas? The post here, is more about these areas than the hall it self. I think he gave me the ole sales pitch. This of course was not what I was looking for. I real'ly wanted them to compair there product to using foam. Instead, they used "traditional mass insulation"(fiberglass matt such as for home use). All they gave was what is in there ad.

I think this product could be used and work. But, I do beleave I'll be using sheet foam in these areas and the hall, with a liner. With the extra rigidity and known closed cell foam buoyancy. I think is a better bet.

[Greg Luckett]

John,

I meant the ceiling, which on a boat is the sides below the decks. Charlie Jones taught me that, or at least retaught me . I think Charlie insulated this area on his boat, and it would have been usefull if my Catalina 22 had it (no longer own that one).

Thanks,

Greg.

[john bowen]

I'm confused all over again :? I do remember that conversation awhile back with Charlie. I'm going to find a site with a picture of a full hall that points with an arrow to each section of the hull. And then print it out and hang it over my PC. Just so Charlie can't say,"buy the way" :wink:

Thanks for bringing it to my attention, Greg :oops:

[john bowen]

OK-OK! The underside of the Coach Roof or the inside of the Coach Roof :roll:

Check out chapter XIX (19) :wink:

http://www.catamaranvega.com/vega/sailing/contents.html

Not a bad site for us that, ummm, ok, haven't been around that much :roll: Or would like a review :wink:

[Greg Luckett]

That is a pretty good glossary, and the rest is good too. Thanks for pointing to that link

[Charlie Jones]

Greg- yes we did insulate behind the ceilings. We used foil both sides urethane foam between the cleats, cut to fit snugly. Here's a shot of Laura fitting one piece and one of the fore cabin foam all installed, ready for the ceilings..