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Bolt through nose


kydocfrog
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Almost done with rehab of my trailer. Next exciting act will probably be to get CGII out of building cradle and up on the trailer.

What experience do folks have with the eyebolt in the stem? Best solution I guess is to run a bold or threaded rod all the way through and backplate it on the back side of the stem, but all that stuff from the bits seems to be in the way of where I would want to drive it. Also seems to involve hiring a very small person to stand on their head in the forepeak... Has anyone used simply a 4 or five inch eye screw driven in and set in epoxy or whatever? Is that a strong enough solution?

Doc A.

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I drilled all the way through for my bow eye and used a length of galvanized threaded rod. The inside has a piece of 3/16" plate as a washer. It was scrap I found that was about the right size.

I cut the rod so I'd be able to get a deep socket over it and used my cordless drill to drive the nut on over a lockwasher. After getting it mostly tightened with the drill, I gave it a last turn with a box end wrench

It isn't too bad. This past summer I had to do some repair work which meant removing the bow eye. I loosened the nut enough to get the boy eye backed away from the stem so I could unscrew the eye from the rod. Then I just pushed the rod up in the hole out of my way.

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I clicked on this thread thinking docfrog would be sporting some new nose jewlery or at the least pierced himsef with some of the hdware off of charlie girl II but I see that is not the case. come on out and we'll weld you up a drill bit extention and a good eyebolt to run all the way through the stem. that is the way to go. all the best,barnacle bill.

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Forget the eye screw.

What I did was get a 3/8 regular U-bolt bow eye, with the two plates on it. Throw one plate away. Bore holes into the keel front just larger than the NUTS on the bow eye. Run the nuts on tha U-bolt just onto the bolt, then set them into the holes and fill with thickened epoxy. Push the U-bolt in until the one remaining plate is flush. Tape it in place til it cures.. Then you can slightly tighten the little flat nuts up top against the front of the keel.

Two 4 or 5 inch legs on that U-bolt, set in thickened epoxy, ain't going ANYWHERE. You could most likely dangle the whole boat from that spot.

Remember- people who build custom wooden catamarans use the epoxied bolt technique to set the bolt that hold the cross arms on. The Gougeon's also use epoxy around bare bolts to hold ballast keels onto boats- with NO nuts.

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I agree with Charlie: No screw eyes. And setting a bolt in epoxy (especially with a nut and washer in a hole bored through from the sides, with plugs set back in afterwards: no visible nuts, tons of strength (maybe literally, depending on the bolt size.)

Done properly, one can hang the boat from the stem eye! (But I haven't tried it with our boats...anyone care to volunteer? It would make a great pic...)

Mike

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I would encourage anyone interested in structural holding power of epoxy with threaded bolts and treaded rods to read over the following article:

http://www.westsystem.com/ewmag/19/Testing_Fasteners.html

This is the information that Charlie and Mike alluded to in this post. I know of a number of others besides Charlie and myself who have been doing this for some time with assemblies that need maximum stength and holding ability. Certainly applicable to this situation. And easy to accomplish. A lot less expensive than long threaded rods and couplers etc.

wiping Vaseline into the treads before surrounding with epoxy will allow the bolt to be withdrawn at any time you wish in the event it has to be removed without cutting down on the strength of the assembly. You also completely eliminate any possiblity of wicking of moisture into the wood surrounding any bolt into or thru wood. Good insurance!

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for setting things like bolts, studs etc I prefer a mix heavy in silica- that's pretty much the highest density filler there is. I might mix in some wood flour for color if needed.

Pre wet the hole with neat epoxy so the wood won't absorb the epoxy from the thickened mix, thus making it too thick to flow.

I would mix to a heavy mayonaise consistency- you want it to flow a little, so it will fill in around the fastener, but not run out of the hole.

Tape around the area before you insert the fastener - makes it much easier to clean up the epoxy over runs. Then pull the tape when the epoxy has just set.

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im sorry, i just don't get it. i keep my boat on a mooring for 4-5 months at a stretch. i can see the boat from my house. there are many times i have to watch her pitch thru brutal storms, sometimes lasting 3-4 days of non-stop strain and violent tugging. its bad enough i have to wonder if the lines, or chains, or tackle will hold. i dont need to be wondering if the epoxy will hold the eye. at least i can sleep knowing a thru-bolt isnt going to pull a wide washer thru the stem. if it gets bad enough to do that, im screwed no matter what.......i guess the epoxied bolt is probably fine for most uses, im probably just being a noodge :roll: but it helps me sleep :wink:

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No need to be sorry at this point Ken. Until you have wood failure around a bow eye due primarily to moisture incursion you won't understand how difficult it is to deal with. But you have entirely valid point. Fortunately, most of the boats are setting on trailers rather than being in the water for extended periods.

The technique is well proven in commercial and pleasure boat building. The testing labs have done a tremendous job of evaluation. Practical experience in the field has proven the concept and the techniques. Yes...it takes a little longer to drill out holes oversized and fill them with epoxy. But with virtually no down side to the techniques other than adapting to working this way I for one totally endorse the method.

Several years of setting at anchor with every thing pulling and jerking on that bow eye and exposure to the weather may make quite a difference. Cinching it tight with a crank on a trailer also strains the bolts and applies stress to the wood surrouding the eye. Doesn't take much to open things up with softwoods to allow moisture incursion over the seasonal changes.

Even more significant are the cleats that mooring lines are attached to. There just isn't a lot of wood there, and epoxy can make a huge difference in holding them inplace in a major blow.

I've done a lot of repairs to bow eyes over the years, most had significant deterioration of the wood surrounding the eye and significant cracks and failures in glass surrounding them. Where they were bedded in epoxy, there just wasn't that much to have to do to make the replacement of the eye a major job.

But then it is always the builders choice. Want things to last longer, a bit of extra effort when building can make a substantial difference in how much maintenance is needed or how long a life span a boat can have.

This is just one area that is open for consideration and offered for those that have not had any of this presented to them. Some may choose to make the technique work for them.

In Barnacle Jim's case it can make a huge difference in the attachment of his keel and water incursion around those threaded rods. Same thing with bow eyes. The thru bolts would still be advantageous for total strength. Adding epoxy to encapsulate them will virtually eliminate any potential issues or mainenance issues due to moisture or wood rot. But there is plenty of strength in mounting with lots of reserve strength as Charlie does it.

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ya know Barry, youve got me thinking.(and that's not easy) until now, ive just been squeezing as much marine sealant as i could at each end of the eyebolt to keep moisture out. surrounding the hole with epoxy would be a much better approach. ive seen the effcts of severe rot around the eyebolt, and dont want to experience it. i think this winter ill pull that bolt out and set it in epoxy(but i'm still thru-bolting :wink: )

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Ken Conners: I think I like your idea best through bolt with epoxy around it. that is the way I did my drain plug ect. drilled the hole 1/2 " to big fill the hole with epoxy and redrilled it to size. now I will have to figure out a way to stand the boat up on it's end so I won't get any air bubbles in it. Y'ALL COME Cap'N Bud. :wink:

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Shouldn't be any issues with galvanized (zinc coated) threaded rod as it will be bedded in epoxy so no moisture will get to it. Obviously with longer thru rods drilling an accurately aligned hole is relatively important. The longer drill bits from Harbor are a bit less exensive than getting them from a box store or electrical supply house. Occasionally, some of the tool rental firms will have long bits available to rent so you don't have to actually purchase a onetime use bit. I've found that they also have forstner bits which track a lot straighter for rent too.

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One of the up sides to the 'cheap' bits is that I hit several of the screws in the keel. This would have ruined a good forstner bit. I have several of the long flexible bits for doing electrical. Nearly ruined one of them when hitting the screws.

I coated the inside of the hole with epoxy and then bedded it real well with 4200 (probably a mistake) when installing the bolt.

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