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CS 17 with a Lid? Hmmmmmmm....


Tim Diebert
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You would think with the intensity of my discussion that I would be itching to start something right away. Not in my case.

What I am doing is, for the first time in my life, planning out exactly what I am going to want to do well in advance of actually needing the project or starting it. I am looking at this boat I am dreaming on as being my 'end boat', my last boat. The one I am going to use every damn day once I retire. Hell, I might not even build it until I retire.

I have built small boats and been involved in the building of several really huge boats and I have done extensive repairs on boats. I know exactly the amount of time and sweat that goes into such a project.

I am a woodworker for a living and have been for 30 years. Right now, I am so burned out with what I do day and and day out....that another woodworking project would not appeal to me at all...no matter how badly I wanted the end result. I doubt I could get it up to go back into the shop to do more woodworking on my time off.

So, that's why I figured once I slow down and do less of my usual work....I will be all tuned up for a right proper boat building fest. Ideally, I would like to build my boat 'full time' with no distractions...have the shop all to myself and the boat. (Hmmmm, now that I think of it, if I arranged the shop just right, I could build a 20 footer in there, and still have room for a full band and a party on Sat. nights)

In the meantime, any spare time I get...weather permitting... goes into sailing....cuz in the end, that is really where all my interest lives. The boat is secondary.

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Wow Tim, can I ever relate to what you are saying.

As I have matured I have learned to savor the time that I have to spend on myself, and so I have become somewhat more particular in how that time gets used.

I can understand that boat plans might need to ferment for a time before they reach full maturity. Surely it is worth the time to make sure the end product will delight.

Your comments about wood shop burnout require me to respond that those guitars are truly beautiful and show a level of craftsmanship I greatly admire. I hope that some time away from the shop will indeed help your motivation, as I am sure the boat that results will be magnificent.

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Thanks Brent. The compliments are appreciated.

as I am sure the boat that results will be magnificent.

I am not so sure about this. There was a time when I couldn't build anything, not simple stair or a box or anything, without it being over the top. I have always feared that if I built another boat for myself it would be so over the top with stupid fancy bits it would take me three times longer to complete than necessary.

I am at a point now where I no longer have anything to prove to anyone, most importantly, to myself. I guess some folks would call that growing up. Who knows.

I would like to think that if and when I get to a position of actually doing something about this project that I would build with the intent of completion as soon as possible, and not finess for the sake of ego.

Paint grade all the way I say......well, maybe with a nice hatch or two and the odd inlay here and there.....and I have some nice intense Flame Maple and Pomele Sepele that would make a fine bit of joiner work below......hmmmmmmm.

I think I will buy a boat.

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Paint grade all the way I say......well' date=' maybe with a nice hatch or two and the odd inlay here and there.....and I have some nice intense Flame Maple and Pomele Sepele that would make a fine bit of joiner work below......hmmmmmmm.

I think I will buy a boat.[/quote']

Tim, you need to find a couple of dumb saps that you can exploit for your pleasure by offering to "guide" them in their boatbuilding. All the pleasure and none of the pain.

Do you live near central PA?

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  • 2 months later...

I was just re-reading this thread and am still thinking this is the best way for me...for now and so far. (Although my wife is digging the Belhaven).

I am just wondering if anyone can share with me an approximate cost of materials for a 17 and a rough guess at hours expected to completion.

Thanks all.

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Tim, I have thought of this thread several times since, often while debating what I want to do for a tent on board the CS20. I am convinced that putting a hard top of the CS17/20 would be easy. Could even be made removable so as to take when needed and leave at home when not.

To my eye the coach roof would have to be kept low both to allow the sprit to sweep by and to retain a fair to the eye line to go with the relatively low freeboard lines. Sitting head room will take some clever planning to acheive.

I think what would result would be very close to a Belhaven.

I will be putting a canvas tent on the CS20.

By the time its all done I suspect there is little cost difference between a CS17 with a tent/dodger or a Belhaven.

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I have put around $1000 into my CS17 so far. I still need about $150 worth of aluminium tube, $50-$75 worth of structural wood, paint, sails, most of the rigging, and a trailer. I probably could have saved some on mixing too much epoxy but I do have a nice protective coat on my work bench :?

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Great info lads, thanks. Thanks for your costing Kidd.

Brent. I know what you are saying...and you are right. I would most likely boil down to a simple decision rather than a cost issue.

Thing is, if I go 17...I may have a lot of stuff that can be used on that hull...save a bit of time and money. I sail a 16 foot boat now and feel that the rig I now have might just swap over with a little bit of work. The new rudder/tiller/rudder stock will swap over to the new boat...etc etc. Just an idea. Or I could just try and sell the boat I have now (complete ) and put that towards the new one. Whatever, details.

Ray

Get crazy and you'll never be done.

This is my biggest fear.....and I think you know me well enough to know it is too real.....but 60 grit? :lol: Is it possible?

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  • 1 month later...

Bumping this thread back up to the top.

It has been some time since the initial thread and I am still thinking this may be the best way to go. The coolest aspect that most appeals to me is that I can use my existing rig and sails, the rudder system, motor mount and motor, all the running rigging, the new hatch, port lights and the current trailer. :shock: Man, that saves a wicked ass amount of time. I am actually thinking of getting into this much sooner rather than later now.

Another aspect (excuse me whilst I mumble away...) of this project I am messing with is; I stumbled upon a series of Newsletter articles by designer Jim Michalak explaining the fundamentals of designing and drawing your own hull. It is not quite completed yet....the series that is.

I have books on this subject that have basically just encouraged me to forget the whole deal....but Jim's explanations are very clear and fall nicely into the KISS principal. If you know his work, much of it is also quite simple. Although I plan to go with a multi chine method.

The 17 is about right for what I have in mind, but I would want some more freeboard for both interior room and to compensate for the added weight of house and ballast. (I love the feel of ballast, what can I say).

Hey, check this out...this is complete heresy.....I photoshoped Rob's 17 to have about 6" more freeboard. It is basically quite ugly as it just adds to the upper sheer panel. But if you were ever wondering.... :lol:

CSchubby.jpg

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Chris

I agree. The scruffie site is one I had called up before and those two boats are having a significant influence on the direction I'm taking Charlie Girl II, including the extended hatch soft top and, in my current thinking, the boomless lug rig, although I may go with boomless gaff. The double headsail rig is neat too.

Tim; another design to filch ideas from is Atkin's Red Onion; an 18 o.a. foot, flat bottom (modified sharpie sort of hull) gaff cutter; 17 on the waterline but with the kind of crisp, old fashioned camp cruiser interior you would expect from an Atkin design. I think the website is under atkinco

DocA.

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Good one Doc. Thanks for pointing those designs out. Actually, the Wild Onion is a sharpie but the page I found provides a link to Wild Oats, which is basically the same boat but done as a V bottomed hull. The rigs are interchangable.

Now that's very close to what I had in mind, just a big bigger.

Cool. I have always loved Atkins stuff.

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  • 1 year later...

Hi All.

I finally figured how to solve this issue. How to put a lid on a CS 17?....

buy an M17. :lol:

PuffGoingHome1Sm.jpg

Dragging Puff from her previous home in Portland (OR) to her new home in Kelowna BC. Taken June last year looking S over the Columbia River. That is mount Hood in the background. A great drive.

The boat is awesome, inspirational and highly recommended.

Designed by Lyle Hess and built by Jerry Montgomery. Ours is 1986.

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The Monty 17 is a great little boat ... it was on my short list for a plastic fantastic day sailer when we bought our 19' West Wight Potter (which is actually 18' LWL, but really the same size as the Montgomery 17!)

The M17 is a faster boat than my Potter, and probably better built ... at least the hull seems stiffer with the molded lapstrake lines. There's a M17 that joins the local Potter group for our sails, and the guy routinely beats the rest of us.

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Hi Frank, yes......I have chased down and passed boats much bigger than the Monty. Usually not so much because of my boat but more often a case of slack sailors aboard. That is they are slack and relaxed until a chubby little sloop seems to be passing them and then you can see the change in their demeanor...funny to watch.

On one of my last sails last year, just on the last leg of a three day cruise, Daphne was sleeping below (man, I love saying that), slid down to the bridge only to find that I missed the 2 o'clock lift and had to wait until 6. Time to kill....I spied a boat not too far away and sailed that direction. I don't know what it was....about 22 feet, masthead rig, low freeboard....very speedy looking. The guy knew what he was doing but was busy talking to a female. When he realized I was matching him it was fun to watch the conversation change and him get busy, trim sail and still try to look casual. after 20 minutes 2 tacks and me still on his butt, he broke off dropped sail and headed off. Could have been his time for home....? Who knows? I have a great time with this boat. A sleeper......in more ways than one. 8)

Daphne never woke up.....and the boat was full of all our cruising gear...mostly empty beer bottles. :lol:

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No deal Ray. I know better.

Lemme see, 600lbs ballast alone including a 200lb plate, electrics, two full tackle sets, 6 hp Yamaguchi, stereo, tool chest and beer keg VS 200lbs of nothing but sail and plywood? Planing plywood.......ya right.

A 20 would be great fun around here. That is for sure.

I gotta say though, our Puff is sure a grand platform when it gets nasty.

Just like Annie M. we are often the last boat on the lake when the shiznit hits the fan. I am still sorting out the balance in bigger winds and seeing how far I can push. I am hoping to replace all the wire before seasons start so I can feel a bit more confident in the rig. The PO had no idea at the age so I left it last year so we could just sail. But I wanna relax with it this year.

Within the first half dozen sails last year I was pretty pleased to bounce the needle off seven knots. Dead downhill and way over pressed, dry mouth territory. But I wanted to see what kind of speeds I could do. That's when you wished the Chubby, overweight little lapstrake cruiser would magically turn into a ......hhhhhmmmmm...........Mini Transat.......ya......like this.........

4.jpg :shock:

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Sailors are a funny lot; we think going a quarter of a knot faster than the other boat is "speeding along". But any time there are two sailboats near each other, there is an unofficial race. I think that's because we realize that in most races, it is often the skill of the sailor that determines the outcome, not just the equipment. That's why I'm a casual, laid back kind of sailor ... ;)

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Sailors are a funny lot; we think going a quarter of a knot faster than the other boat is "speeding along".

I know, makes me laugh all the time. Folks I work with think I am nuts.

I am like you Frank...normally....laid back. But get another boat near me and the horns pop out.... :twisted:

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Guest Oyster
Sailors are a funny lot; we think going a quarter of a knot faster than the other boat is "speeding along".

I know' date=' makes me laugh all the time. Folks I work with think I am nuts.

I am like you Frank...normally....laid back. But get another boat near me and the horns pop out.... :twisted:[/quote']

And then there are some of us that have proven to be completely nuts beyond a shadow of a doubt. :lol: Great to see you pop in. Now I must be on my way. 8)

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Guest Oyster
Hey it's the Molusk Man' date=' how the heck are ya? Saw you with a hair cut on a pic somewhere. What's up with that?[/quote']

Its been a tough winter having to sail and fish almost once or twice a week except when the winds and weather combined to make it below freezing. But indeed tell me more of this sighting for sure. :?

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