System Three LPU

[Stump]

Read about this on another site. Person using it was only doing his top sides. He stated that it was great stuff and so glossy that it tended to show every imperfecton. However, you could roll or brush it on, it flowed smooth, and you could clean up with water. Anybody here heard about it?

[Frank Hagan]

I've heard mostly bad. Its a "water based linear polyurethane" with a "cross linker". I think the cross linker is probably MEK, which, at 1 ounce per gallon, was an old formula for hardening up latex paint. Not sure that works. To me, "water based" means latex, which means not as hard as oil paint, but I don't have direct experience with S3 to verify that.

Anyway, the criticism I've heard about S3's LPU is that it is hard to apply without streaks and imperfections. People like using a good quality oil-based alkyd enamel paint instead (but you do have to test for compatibility iwth your epoxy).

Interestingly, Practical Sailor is doing a test of "topside and deck" paints, and one of the better ones so far is Rustoleum. Surprised the heck out of them, but it is a "high solids" paint. I find it really hard to get a good surface out of it because it is so thick.

[Frank Hagan]

I don't have the issue in front of me, but I think it was regular Rustoleum; a reader suggested they compare it to the expensive marine paints. I'll look and see if I can find the article.

[kydocfrog]

I'd like to see that myself. Reminds me of a piece in Cruising World years ago. They tested all of the high tech corrosion preventing treatments for hardware and stuff exposed to salt spay - all sorts of things from NASA and aerospace technology and stuff. The most effective by a runaway was just plain old WD-40

[adla]

i used graphite epoxy on the bottom of my boat...and then couldn't stand how shiny it was ~ i wiped it with a scotch brite really good and applied rustoleum (sp) flat black, high heat, enamel for fun...to see how it would hold up...if i ever get the thing in the water, i will let y'all know.

http://adlacearl.com/v-web/gallery/Morgaine/DSC00072

http://adlacearl.com/v-web/gallery/Morgaine/DSC00061_001

[Charlie Jones]

Frank- one point about the "water based means latex" The newer acrylic latexes are really tough durable paints that give a hard finish. Not at all like the old soft latex paints we used to use on interior walls.

I certainly don't recommend them for use on the exterior of boats, but that's all I ever use inside of boats. I've used acrylic latexes in 5 boats now and am definitely planning to use it on the interior of the Rhodes Meridian I'm restoring.

This is a shot of the interior of the Princess I'm currently building. That's acrylic latex.

By the way- I've had a hardware store enamel on the outside of a cedar strip canoe now for some 10 years- it's holding up fine. The bottom is epoxy/graphite. Of course, the canoe doesn't get USED as often as it should but that's another story

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[Frank Hagan]

My point about latex is that if you are going to buy latex paint, you can certainly get it cheaper than System Three's LPU. I'm suspicious of the formula, especially the "cross linker", because they don't really tell you what it is. I suspect its just to give it an aura of uniqueness so they can charge more!

I've heard both good and bad about it, but mostly bad, and mostly about the difficulty getting it to brush out.

A lot of people like a quality alkyd enamel for the outside and good quality latex for the inside, without paying the premium for S3's paint. I used latex "Porch and Floor Paint" for my Weekender, and it worked OK (still a pretty soft paint). Had I to do it over again, I would choose a good quality alkyd enamel (oil based).

Its been at least two years since I investigated it, but if S3 still won't tell you what's in the formula, then I would stay away. Just my personal opinion, of course, and I really have no axe to grind with them.

[Charlie Jones]

Can't argue with that. When Laura and I started the shop here in Victoria we tried using a water based lacquer with a "cross-linker" that was supposed to make the stuff the eguivalent of catalyzed lacquers.

We damned near went broke, re doing the furniture that refused to cure, or cured until the next wet spell, then got soft again. That was one of the most horrible times of our shop career, redoing furniture till all hours of the night and doing the new stuff during the day. I've refused to use water based lacquers ever since.

I've tried a few other water based finishes since, but the only one I remain happy with is the acrylic latex paints. But if you really like the oil borne enamels, make sure you keep a supply in house. The future isn't bright for solvent bourne materials. The EPA is getting tighter and tighter on them and I fear it won't be many years hence when they simply won't be available anymore.

[warthog5]

HeHe adla

I like Shinny Black. This boat took 1st Place May 1, 2004 at Pirates Cove Boat Festival [Power under 20]

http://www.perdidowoodboat.org/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=36&MMN_position=41:36:37

http://www.troutwagon.com/Nautical/SwampWitch/SwampWitch6.htm

[Charlie Jones]

VERY nice job. Laura and I were at Pirates Cove in June. We spent several nights anchored up in Roberts Bayou. Not a lot left of the marina and rest since Ivan is there. Sad- was a funky place. I hope they rebuild.

I have a friend who had his Seafarer 30 washed up into the woods during Ivan there at Pirates. He's working now to get it back together. He HAD been living aboard.

[capt jake]

Warthog5, what was the product you used for the fillets? It appears white, just curious.

Also, out of curiosity, some of the seams appear to have a green tint to them as well as you fairing compound. Can you enlighten us?

You ended up with a marvelous finish; a very nice boat indeed. :)

[adla]

you remembered to empty the non-skid out of the shaker before you put it back in the kitchen, eh?

looks good - real real good...shiny looks good on yer witch.

Adla

[warthog5]

I have stoped mixing my own epoxy/cabisol/microballons for fillets.

I use FGCI's [Fiberglass Coatings Inc.] 2 to 1 Bonding putty. It's a little more expensive but sure does make life easy. It comes in a white paste for part A and a thick honey for part B. I weigh it out on a digital scale in grams. Mix it together like you would Bondo, but mix it a little more.

As to the green that you say. I assume that you are referring to the back lockers on the front side. That is Divenacell. 3/8in foam core. It is heat formed to get the nice radius as it wraps around. No square [backyard looking] corner.

I belive this is what your talking about?

[warthog5]

FGCI's part #'s for the 2 to 1 Bonding Putty.

These are the #'s for qts. Remember to order 2qts of the Base, Part A

65406084 EPOXY BONDING PUTTY,BASE-QT QT 11.95

65606084 EPOXY BONDING PUTTY,ACT-QT QT 11.95

Once you use this stuff you will quite making your own.

It's 3 times faster to mix and it lay's out like a dream. Never slumps.

[capt jake]

When you heat form the Divinacell, do you just use a heat gun and manipulate it by hand?

I thought you were useing a putt of some sort. I have contemplated that for some time. Mixing is a bit tedious. Is the putty as strong as a hand mixed formula? Say for S&G applications.

[warthog5]

To bend the Devinacell. I clamp it to a piece of pipe that I like the radius on. PVC pipe works fine. Then use the heat gun and carefully heating it and not overhaeting it. You can form it by hand.

The FGCI's 2 to1 Bonding Putty in a S&G boat is perfect. You will spend a hell'vq lot more time building the boat and a lot less time mixing goop.

I always have my glass cut that will go over the fillet, before I mix for the fillets. Lay the fillets and then lay the glass while the fillets are still wet or green. It's more work in one day, but will save you at least another day of sanding. After the glass is laid and green. I like to wipe a coat of System 3's Quik Fair over the glass if needed. Now when you sand, you are sanding the Quik Fair and not the glass.

Do it all at once and there's no sanding between. Those that have done the sanding between know how time consuming it can be.

This is all based on Very clean laid fillets to begin with. No trash balls and cruddy workmanship.

Here are some pix's on another project that I heat formed the Divenacell.

This was a little more involved as I built a buck/mold.

This is an intrustrement pod for my Mako.

[capt jake]

Interesting. No unthickened epoxy on the cloth? Seems that you would need some degree of saturation in the cloth. Maybe the fairing compound you refer to is thinner than I am envisioning.?

I like this idea, more time building and less mixing! I like this a lot.

[warthog5]

No the cloth is saturated with unthickened epoxy when it's laid. I like to lay my glass on a sheet of visqueen and saturate it, then squeege it. Then pick it up and lay it. I do this only for glass tape and thin cut pieces of biaxl that I cover fillets with.The Quik Fair will fill any weave left and feather the glass to it's souroundings.

People have been feathering their glass forever. The best thing is not to touch the glass. The glass is the strength.

That Divenacell Pod was then covered with glass both sides.