Greg Luckett Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 It looks like there is need to update the plans a little for the Amphora, and since there are a few of us building at least a couple of them, we could discuss it here. Doing so under this subject line should help us find it later. This is one cool looking little boat, easy to build, and kids love it. Once my grand kids see it completed, they will expect to have one from Grandpa too . Mark and Alexander Gudschinsky are building one named Swimmer. I think Laura is building a different boat, but is probably helping too. Mark has made some excellent suggestions under a different subject line. Mike Stevenson has also assisted with this process. My sons, Sam and Ben, with my aid, are building one named Dragon. They are thinking of things to do with this boat and dreaming about boats. I love this. They have liked sailing on the lake on our bigger boat, and canoeing on the rivers and small lakes around here too. What we have run into is not finding the clear fir, pine, or spruce wood stock and 1/2 round material here abouts. I am thinking of using sassafras, which I can get locally, and is a nice, clean looking wood used in local commercial boat building. The 1/2 round might be replaced by a D shaped molding, but I am reluctant to do that yet. The auto body filler and the 2 part glues will be replaced by West System 105 and fillers (already in stock in my shop). I am wondering about using brass screws rather than plated. Now I would like to open this up to discussion and suggestions Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeStevenson Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Brass screws are always an option for our boats. A good one too. We used plated as they were cheap and available in the early '70's. I suspect they were better plated then also. Stainless is a nice option, but I'm not sure if I wouldn't use brass myself if they weren't too expensive. Nix on the two-part rescorcinol glues; never a good idea. Did we call for that in the Amphora? Hmmm...I had to go look, and there are pics of me mixing the two-part glue. Go for either the plastic resin or the epoxy: The usual deal. I can't believe half-round is getting hard to find. What's with everybody nowadays? (Everybody = wood suppliers in this case) If you have to, it's not too hard to use two lengths of 1/4-round to make rubrails. If you have the tools, you can do what I had to for our house: router table to do a half-round edge, then table saw to rip the molding off, repeat ad nauseum. This is a pretty small boat: I suspect the transom and bulkhead could be replaced by 1/2" marine ply (3/4" would certainly work.) Use reasonably good wood (lumber stock, not plywood) for the keel. There's not much wood involved there, and it needs to be bang-up-able. A note to everybody regarding leaving these in the water for long periods (this applies to ALL our boats): I am reminded of what happened to Amphora #2. It was leant to a family member to use as a dinghy for his 40-footer. He left it floating at the SDYC all summer and when we went to pick it up the teredos (wood-eating sea creatures) had eaten the whole keel below the waterline. Be careful leaving our boats in salt water; there's not much wood in these boats and we can't afford to have any of it eaten up! The fate of poor Amphora #1 was Hurricane Iniki (possibly the Kauai Weekender also, but I think that may have melted into the bush before then.) Hurricane Ewa got the 3-In-1 and the Triad. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannah Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Greg, brass is not an improvement over hot-dipped galvanized, just a different set of problems. If you are willing to pop for bronze, I would recommend it. I have used Sassafrass gathered in the course of work to build rustic trellises for a historic garden. In combination with Silky Dogwood splits, these have held up very well and are left out all year. I did the first one as a cheap and easy experiment and it just required new twine 3 years later. Lots of local species work well, just never found their way into modern commercial lumber. You may be able to find some Osage Orange out your way which is another wonderful wood for boats and outdoor building. Add a bit of botany to the building for the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Pyeatt Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 You might try your local ACE (is the place) Hardware. They are generally very competitive on screws. I got them involved in my Weekender project and agreed to purchase everything I could thru them that they would be competitive on price on and they beat just about everyone. Especially with a kids project. They eat up that kind of stuff for PR and the staff generally gets into it really well. Just keep them apraised with photos and take the kids into shop there so they can see the builders. For the amount of screws etc that you need, I would certainly try them. I would probably go with stainless since there isnt' that big a difference in the total based upon the amount of screws needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeStevenson Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 OOoops...I restated teh brass screw deal didn't I? Bronze was what I meant, and didn't have the brain-wave to put down. We used them in one of the Weekenders with no trouble. We have used stainless far more often, also with no problems. Plated will weep rust after a couple of years, but I don't see it happening on the glassed boats. Perhaps it will in extreme cases. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Luckett Posted January 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 You might try your local ACE (is the place) Hardware. They are generally very competitive on screws. I got them involved in my Weekender project and agreed to purchase everything I could thru them that they would be competitive on price on and they beat just about everyone.Especially with a kids project. They eat up that kind of stuff for PR and the staff generally gets into it really well. Just keep them apraised with photos and take the kids into shop there so they can see the builders. For the amount of screws etc that you need' date=' I would certainly try them. I would probably go with stainless since there isnt' that big a difference in the total based upon the amount of screws needed.[/quote'] I started buying SS screws from Ace years ago. Saves big bucks from buying at the local marine supplier. I like the idea of using SS over plated or bronze. Good idea, also, about the PR stuff. I will bring that up with the local owner. Maybe a "special" deal in the offing? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gudschinsky Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Greg, I like this idea. I'm sure there will be more Amphoras in the future (especially as kids find out they can join too.) Alexander finished kerfing all of his stringers tonight (Laura did the layout.) So the next session will be glue up of sub assemblies. We are keeping a close watch to see how it all goes together with an eye to contributing here. We did discover that fir may not be appropriate for stringers on this boat (tight radiuses.) As Alexander tested a few around the curves he had several break. When we did our weekender we used pine and that worked well. There is a thread that deals with stringer material and hickory was mentioned as a good alternative by Barnacle Jim http://www.messing-about.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1624&highlight=stringers His example isn't even kerfed. If it works on the tight curves of the Amphora it will be a real plus as it will speed up and improve the finished product. I think we're going to try some as it's available here. I also think there is a good chance to save a bit on material for the hull. I'll expound later if it pans out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Pyeatt Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 See if you can get some sitka spruce instead. In the length you need it shouldn't be much. It will work well for this use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gudschinsky Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Alexander has finished all of his stingers toight. Today we gule them together . Bye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Luckett Posted February 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Alexander, Can you take pictures to record your steps of construction? You would probably enjoy having that in a scrap book when you get older. You could also share the pictures with all of us here then too. Greg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gudschinsky Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 We're taking pictures, and will post as we develop. Probably next Thursday.(Dad is a film buff - no digital.) We had a delay in the glue-up.I didn't like the looks of the glue after it was mixed. We'll try again Monday or Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannah Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 I don't envy you trying to explain to the kids that the glue doesn't look good and more will not appear for 2 days. The reproaches can be heard way over here. :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Luckett Posted February 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 We (Sam, Ben, and I) have decided to build the frames from 3/4 plywood and stringers. This was Mark's idea, I think, and since the material is already on hand, ta-da! I am taking a real serious look at changing the keel at the bow and stern to look somewhat like a Viking vessel. I still need to run some calculations on how it affects stability and weight. It should be alright if we do not get carried away with too much mass. Maybe just a bolt on addition that can be easily removed later. We got the Nymph out of the way last night, the cradle is now in process, which means the Amphora will start next week some time. The deal I worked with Sam and Ben is that they will not have to change diapers for at least 3 months if they will wait a couple of weeks...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Luckett Posted February 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 I was laying out the keel for the Amphora when it was discovered that the dimensions were no longer legible in the book. Could someone please help us with the correct dimensions? We need the 7th from the bottom, in the drawing on page 25. Thankyou, Greg, Sam, and Ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeStevenson Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Station #7 1 1/4" from top of board to top of keel; 1 1/2" from bottom of board to bottom of keel. Station # 8: 0" at top (flush w/board), 2 3/4" at bottom. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Luckett Posted February 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Station #7 1 1/4" from top of board to top of keel; 1 1/2" from bottom of board to bottom of keel. Station # 8: 0" at top (flush w/board)' date=' 2 3/4" at bottom. Mike[/quote'] Mike, Thankyou!!!!! I am making an Autocad drawing of the parts and pieces. Would you like the .dwg file when I am done? Perhaps you could market the plans? Greg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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