Guest capt jake Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 OK help me out on this one. At the bow; where the rub rail intersects the keel; what are most of you doing with that transition?? Hold it a tad aft and round off the fore end of the rail? Or, blend it into the keel with a compound tapered joint??? This is the one I was planning on, but what a mess to fit. Did those two descriptions make sense?? jwentz4@attbi.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Frechette jr Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 Oh Please! There is only one option and you missed it. You must chop compound tapered mortises into the keel and fit the rub rails in. Oh, and gaps may not show anywhere. refent1@prodigy.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest capt jake Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 You must chop compound tapered mortises into the keel and fit the rub rails in. You gotta be kidding!! Seriousely, rounded or fitted. Ray, you are a funny guy..... jwentz4@attbi.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Frechette jr Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 OK, I had my fun. I have my rails cut with a compound angle to lay somewhat flush to the keel. Epoxy and filler fleshed out the rest of it. Now I got away with this as I have painted rub rails. I would think that brightwork rails would require significant skills to lay flat against the keel. If I had gone with bright rails, I would have gone for a termination of a bulb or bullnose near the keel hull joint. refent1@prodigy.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest capt jake Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 Bulb I think is the solution as mine will be bright. Trying to fit it tight against the fillet and keel appears to be a fruitless venture. Other thoughts? HMMM. Tenons, geeze.. As if I am building a bed or dresser (shh, she might be listening). jwentz4@attbi.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Hagan, Weekender, O Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 I cut it to fit against the keel. I used a short scrap to get the angle of the cut right, then transfered that to the end of the rub rail. I attach that end to the boat first. I don't remember it as being difficult. fshagan@ev1.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest capt jake Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 The only difficult part here is the fact that the hull has it's fillets and is glassed. Thus the weird, not only compound angle, but the odd curve of the fillet to deal with. Hmm. I have a test rounded end on one rail to see how it looks. Now the problem is getting SOMEBODY to get away from the TV long enough to help. jwentz4@attbi.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Frechette jr Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 When all else fails....Caulk! refent1@prodigy.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Levi Bright... Ohio Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 GEEZE! It's great how you guys work these things out. Makes me wish I was building again now that I know where to go for help...The nice part is, I can visualize what you are talking about because I have sort of "been there" but even if I hadn't, you are clear in your advice. That's a good reason for me to join your forum as I am getting up courage to start my next project. Hope I can count on a little support now and then....it's going to surely be a hard winter here in the Buckeye State. Greetings to all from a newcomer. Levi:) charsal4950@webtv.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest capt jake Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 OK, Calk, UGHH, unless you can recomend a CLEAR sealant that is not siliocne based. I have 1/2 of the upper rail in place and there are only minor gaps betweeen the hull (I mean like less than 1/32"). I may have forgot to mention that the hull sides are even with the deck. Meaning the hull sides do not extend above teh deck as per the plans. The upper rail is about 3/8" down from the deck (clears teh radius of the corner). The rails are only 1 1/4" wide instead of the 1 1/2". The distance between the 2 rails will probably be slightly less than plans due to the fact that the upper is already lower than plans. I am leaning towards finishing and then applying the rails with a bedding compound (or something that is clear, non-silicone). Thoughts on a 'compound'????? D: jwentz4@attbi.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Hagan, Weekender, O Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 Tough to find one that's clear, but not a silicone based caulk. You can get colored bedding compound, so a brown compound would look OK next to a mahogany rub rail, tan next to white oak, etc. Just a thought! I screwed and glued my rub rails on, using epoxy mixed with maple wood flour to glue on the phillipine mahogany. Worked really well. fshagan@ev1.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Hagan, Weekender, O Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 fshagan@ev1.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Frechette jr Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 Curious as to why you have no Toe Rail John. I had a few spots on my boom that wood tore out when routing the round over corners. I faired these spots out with epoxy with fumed sillica mixed in to make a vaseline consistency. These spots are hardly noticeable as they are quite clear if not too thick. Whats the aversion to silicone caulk? I know the hardware store stuff doesn't hold up. Water gets behind the bead and ugly mildew sets in. On my 88 Toyota Corolla however I had wateer leaking into the trunk from a fauly fitting tailight secondary to old car accidennt not properly fixed by body shop. I put a bead of Clear Marine grade silicone caulk all around the lens 3 years ago. Still in excellent shape with no leakage or ugly mildew behinf=d bead. I bought the Marine silicone at West Marine. Been highly impressed with it. refent1@prodigy.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T. Nelson Surbrook Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 Welcome Levi, good to have you with us. Here's the deal, you share info. with us and we will share with you. Actually, we will be happy to share even if you don't LOL. Welcome tnelson@surbrook.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Craig Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 The silicone will never completely clean off what ever it gets on! Varnish and paint will not stick to this stuff. I will not use it anywhere around my boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T. Nelson Surbrook Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 If it was Norm building the boat he would use a bisket, LOL. I cut the compound miter and set the end of the rub-rail flush with the stem. Here's something you might want to think about, you may want to leave enough room between the rails to get a sander in so you can sand the area between the rails. What are you going to do with the flush deck joint? You could use a commerical toe rail. That would be very nice, you know the allum. extrusion type with the slots in it. From my experiance, a toe rail is a usefull thing and may help prevent going overboard. For saftey reasons alone you should consider some type of toe rail. If you deciede not to install one then you must wear a PFD for sure! Really to be safe you should wear a PFD anyway. Only 18% of people wear a PFD and this may be due to the fact that they are uncomfortable and get in the way. I suggest getting a good one like the ones from Mustang Survival. The new type 5 inflatables are very comfortable to wear and you can get them with the harness setup for added saftey. Hey, don't get me started on saftey! I could go on for a long time. I had better shut up... tnelson@surbrook.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest capt jake Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 I think Craig answered the question as to why no silicone. Once it is on, it contaminates everything. There will be a toe rail, though it is a separate piece. Instead of the hull sides extending above the deck, this boat has the hull sides flush. I got both upper rails fitted last night, just have to route a dado for the chain plates. I just rounded over the ends of each rail. I will try ot fit the lower rails today, toe rails will go on after she is right side up. Now I think the best way to aproach this is to apply the primer, then epoxy the rails in place. the epoxy will help fill the few very minor voids while adding more strength and water proofing. Mask and apply varnish. Reverse the masking and apply paint. Then turn her right side up and start again. As for the colored bedding compounds, i ahve thought about that, but I am worried that it will ooze out on the paint (white) and be hard to clean up. I don't know, maybe I am wrong here as well. jwentz4@attbi.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Konrad in Lincoln Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 I haven't read all 200 replies to your post, but I cut it pretty close and then filled in the gaps with a bead of sealant, which I applied to the top and bottom of the rails anyway. Easy-peasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Frechette jr Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 Well if silicone is out, maybe you could use seam compound to fill in (caulk) the gaps, or a paintable caulk. I would suggest laying at least one or two coats of varnish on the three sides of the rubrail that will be finished prior to installing. Make it easier to wipe off the drips and dribbles. You could also put some thickened epoxy in a pastry bag with a sacrificial pastry tip to make your own caulk gun to fill gaps with epoxy with pretty good control. refent1@prodigy.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest capt jake Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 Well, considering the amount of bend that is applied to the rails, I had originally thought about varnishing prior to application. But with the bend, it may crack the finish (as one small amount of grain showed me). I will probably epoxy in place, bung the holes and then coat with epoxy, followed up with varnish. The gaps are so minor that even unthicked epoxy will fill the void(s). jwentz4@attbi.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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