taming track sails

[JeffM]

I built my CS20 back in 2004-5 with much help from this forum, but it's been years...  Meanwhile I've made many modifications--a few of which were even good ideas--including adding a trunk cabin.  I've mainly done 2-3 day trips in MA and RI waters.  Now, with Alan's help, I'm switching from my original sleeve luff sails to track sails.  This brings up a question: what do I do with my furled sails at night to keep them out of the way but ready for action?  (The sleeve luff are easy: wrap them around the masts, then stand the sprits along side and tie them in a neat bundle.)  The mizzen in particular has to be out of the way of entering and exiting the cabin--which the mizzenmast partially blocks as it is.  (Since the cabin extends to the thwart.)  Ideas?

[Reacher]

One suggestion…use sail ties to furl the sail around the sprit then attach the halyard to the end of the sprit as a topping lift to raise the foot of the furled bundle out of the way. In other words it will look like a mainsail furled on the boom of a traditional rig.

 

i would be interested to see a list of your modifications.

[Graham]

Here is how I do i t on Carlita. I could not find a picture where I had done a neat stow so you get to see my slovenly ways.

 

I have an eye strap on the forward side of the mizzen mast which is about 4-5 ft. above where I would like the aft end of the main sprit to stow. There is a small line tied the eye strap with an S hook at the bottom end of the line that hooks on to another eye strap on top of the aft end of the sprit. It takes me about a second to attach the S hook to the sprit after the sail is lowered. The sail drops to the sail stop at the bottom of the track. I put three sail ties in my pocket and go forward and roll up the sail and put on the first tie, working back tying the other sail ties. I then tighten the snotter to take the sag out of the sail and tighten the main sheet. If you don't tighten as above, you will definitely get woken if waked during the night as the sprit bangs against the mast.

 

I use the mizzen staysail halyard as a topping lift to hold the aft end of the mizzen sprit where I want, otherwise it is the same as the main stow.

[JeffM]

Thanks, Reacher and Graham!  My cabin extends further aft than that of a mk3, but it's a trunk cabin so not hard to get to the foredeck. 

 

Which leads to another question: how do you raise and reef the main?  I could never get my sleeved sails to reef well, so tried to anticipate stronger winds so I could move the mizzen to the reefing step while still at anchor.  But I have high hopes for using the reef points on the new sails.  Can the main really be raised smoothly from the cockpit?  Does it come down readily when the halyard is uncleated?

[Chick Ludwig]

On Southern Breeze, I used sail ties to furl the sails to the sprits. Tighten the snotter to where you want the the front of the sprit to be above the deck when you raise the sprit with a topping lift to get it out of the way. I do the same thing when I lower the masts for trailering, but I pull the aft end of the sprit all the way to where it lays up against the mast. Then a couple of ties around the sprit and mast to hold it there. I have a permanent topping lift on each mast. You'll have to either unhook the sheet or let it way out to get it out of the way and let the sprit raise.

[Don Silsbe]

Two winters ago, I was privileged to be loaned PadrePoint’s Avocet for some winter cruising in Florida.  This is how he and I set the boat up and furled the sails for the evening.

[Alan Stewart]

19 hours ago, JeffM said:

Thanks, Reacher and Graham!  My cabin extends further aft than that of a mk3, but it's a trunk cabin so not hard to get to the foredeck. 

 

Which leads to another question: how do you raise and reef the main?  I could never get my sleeved sails to reef well, so tried to anticipate stronger winds so I could move the mizzen to the reefing step while still at anchor.  But I have high hopes for using the reef points on the new sails.  Can the main really be raised smoothly from the cockpit?  Does it come down readily when the halyard is uncleated?

The main can absolutely be raised/lowered from the cockpit no problem but as with any sailboat it's far easier with no loads on the slides i.e. boat pointing into the wind and make sure the main is uncleated, snotter loosened and downhaul loose as well or you won't get a full hoist. For reefing the main when solo i'd recommend installing a second seperate downhaul line that is attached to the first main reef. This addition makes it so you can tension the sail after lowering the halyard to the first reef position without having to go forward to move the downhaul hook up one hole. Just make sure this and the first downhaul are loose with line pulled through the cleat before you try to hoist the main back up again. 

 

It does come down readily when you drop the halyard provided the slides are again not loaded up. So when headed into the wind the sail usually falls at least half way down and a few tugs usually get it down 80% of the way. The last little bit you typically need to reach forward to get all the way down. The plastic slides on the aluminum track are not quite as free sliding as the stainless slides on the old schaefer track but ONLY if the schaefer track was deburred and polished which was not typically the case and in that case it was a real pita. 

[Paul356]

On my CS 17, I put the sprits and sails up and out of the way the same as Graham shows on Carlita.  Alternately, sometimes I just take the mizzen off the track and put the furled sail and sprit on the rear deck or hanging out over the transom.

 

I have the main sheet and the two furling lines running back to the cockpit so I can raise and lower the main or reef it from the cockpit.  This is not "single-line" reefing, as that would be a bit too much to rig each time I set the boat up for day sailing, but is what I'd call slab reefing, meaning separate reef lines at the fore and aft ends of the sail.  I do, as hinted above, have a hook on each of the forward reef lines that go into the cringles on the main so I can reef down the main to first or second reef from the cockpit.  I then reef up the clew from the back, which I can also do from the cockpit.

 

And yes, the main comes down if the halyard is released, much as Alan describes.  I have the stainless slides and track, so it comes down pretty easily. 

[Steve W]

I do what Don has shown in the pics. I usually put sail ties around the sail and sprit together. If you undo the downhaul, you can pull the whole bundle up the sail track. With a topping lift (I use my mizzen staysail halyard) you can get the whole rig up and out of your way. This is probably the best pic I have although the topping lift is normally pulled higher.  

[Don Silsbe]

I wonder what the details are about polishing the Schaefer track.  Anybody?

[JeffM]

WOW.  I'll have to get used to all of these strings!  More critically, I'll need to figure out how to route them along my narrow side decks without having them roll under my feet when I go forward!  Thanks all!

[Paul356]

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If you bring all the lines back, you shouldn't need to go forward while sailing.  Or, bring them all back on one side and go forward, if needed, on the other.  But it's not as much an impediment as you might think.

 

Below, first, is a picture of my cleat bank for the forward lines at the cockpit edge.  From left to right they are downhaul (red speckle), first reef (blue), second reef (red), halyard (blue speckle) and snotter (blue w/ white).

 

Below that is a picture of the (dusty, messy) foredeck with the same lines led forward to the mast step.

 

So, it's not much clutter and it's a big improvement.

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[Don Silsbe]

@Paul356— You ran all your downhauls through one big fairlead.  That’s brilliant!  After all, only one at a time will be in tension, right?

[JeffM]

Just to check my understanding before I begin riveting sail track: the bottom end of each track should not extend so far that the furled sail makes a mess on the deck or cockpit.  Right?

[Paul356]

Ha, Don, yes, in part because I was darn through putting fairleads on the deck, saw that big hole and thought, why not?  But, right, only one of those is tight at at time. 

And, Jeff, my main sail track ends a few (couple?) inches above the deck, which allows room for the sail stop as well.  There is a length measurement shown on the plans, from black line at top of mast to black line at the bottom, the bottom black line being the extent to which the down haul can be used to pull the sail tight under the "rules," as if anyone is watching.  But the black line gives a nice taught luff.  The bottom black line marking on the main mast gives you room above the deck.  I leave the main slides on the track when furling as shown in the pictures above.  Also leave the excess in the track when reefing.  

[Paul356]

On 9/11/2024 at 5:21 PM, Don Silsbe said:

I wonder what the details are about polishing the Schaefer track.  Anybody?

A little sandpaper or emory paper along the under edge of the track, I think.  Doesn't take much.

[Paul356]

Jeff, I rolled the boat out of the garage and stepped the mast, for other stuff.  This photo shows how far the sail track extends near the deck on the main mast.  A few inches.

 

 

[JeffM]

Paul, I usually stay out overnight, so I go forward at least for anchor handling. 

 

Let me try out a plan on you all.  All three downhauls tie to an eye strap on deck just abaft and to starboard of the mainmast.  Each runs up through its  cringle and down to a deck block (neighbors to a block for the halyard), then around the cabin top to port along with the halyard (keeping the side deck as free as possible), to cleats on the cabin side.

 

Photos:

1. Main hung from new mast to work out height that would clear top of cabin.  Just for overview.

2-4. Where I figure to run all lines for the main: from adjacent to mast stepper, along foredeck to fairleads low on cabin side, to the port aft edge of the cabin.  (The fairlead on the deck was originally for snotter, but now I run it through fairlead on cabin side.)

[JeffM]

Thanks, Paul.  That's a pretty deck!

 

My trunk cabin is the reason for my custom rig.  But now I'm unexpectedly finding the mizzen a bit short.  When I hung the new mizzensail from the new mast it didn't clear my head by as much as I'm used to, and came pretty low over the cabin entrance. Hmmm...

[Paul356]

I'm not sure if I'm following your pix, exactly, but if you have your downhauls and reef lines anchored on one side of the mast and bring them back to be pulled tight on the other (port) side, that should work.  then you can walk forward on stbd side deck.  That's more or less what I have, just with the sides flipped.

 

I added a little tent to my dodger this winter.  I should have taken a picture.  I'm hoping to be able to adjust anchor from cockpit, after setting anchor before I put up the canvas.  Heading north for sail camping on Friday.  Stay tuned.