Barry Pyeatt Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Jan, I"ve found that you can use panel adhesive to bond with foam quite well. Another adhesive that can be used is PL Premium Concrete adhesive and oddly enough it works well as a glue for wood parts that may have exposure to water. Tuff stuff. Since I have both I will most likely use the panel adhesive. Yes Jan, this is a very satisfying endevor. This isn't my first boat building endevor and I know it won't be my last if I have anything to say about it. The plan was to build a Weekender to see if the kids would actually use it as much as they say they will. If so, then we will build a Vacationeer so we can have a two boat flotilla for longer cruising and camping. One for cooking and carrying more of the things we need for extended outings and the other to try and keep up with it. Now that my youngest son is a father, we will have to see if the interest still is there with his bride and his new son. I do know that the grandson will be on the water at an early age. That is if they allow me to have access to him. :roll: We've had big boats and still have access to them when I want to go somewhere and cruise for extended periods in much warmer waters. But the kids are pretty intimidated by the bigger boats and honestly didn't enjoy the outings on them as much as Dad did. But they used to take the little boats and just go out on a frequent basis. So we will see. Waters up here are a little on the cold side. Sleeping directly on the bottom or against the hullside is a cold wakeup. As a consequence I learned a long time ago that some insulation makes a big difference. That it doubles as positive flotation is a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Williamson Posted October 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Barry, Kind of an on going hobby for you. I view this whole thing for me as a good cure for boredom. So you are a grandpa Congratulations! My husband and I have 7 kids and 5 grandkids with I am sure more down the line. Our youngest is 21. So the new parents are protective heh? Well we were that way too I'm sure. Our oldest daughter is just now starting to consider letting us take the 8 yr old and 5 yr old out on the fishing boat. We mostly go out on Lake Shasta, water is not too cold. In the summer the water gets up to 85 or so. But there are many lakes in Northern California to choose from, I just have to do my homework to go to the best ones for sailing. I think the weekender will be the only sailboat I make. Unless my husband takes a liking to sailing. Right now he is one of those fishing under power types, but who know he may just like the quiet ride. Sound like the glue will be stronger than the velcro, which is all you need. I got the forepeak painted with a coat of primer today, two more to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnacle Jim Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Hi Barry, Thanks for the information on the blue board or blue foam. What you are suggesting sounds very practical. Has anyone figured out a coefficient on the buoyancy of the foam? Is there some nautical formula? For instance, if we have a 2 inch thick piece which roughly measures 3 x 8 feet, how much weight would such a piece support? Well, there may not be any formula like that, but it does seem prudent to use the foam as insulation and flotation. Does the foam have an odor? I noticed you said something about the cushions drying out. Does the foam itself absorb any water? What if we used the foam between the hull and ceiling boards? Would that work? Jan, thanks for the kind comments. The boat we are trying to build is a modified Vacationer. Our aim is to build a Friendship Sloop replica, at least, that's our hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Mellema Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Jim The 3x8 size foam you mentioned is 4 cuft at aprox 64lbs/cuft or about 256 lbs floation. less the weight of the foam which is about 3lbs so it would give you about 250 lbs floation. A full 4X8 sheet of 2"foam board is about 5.333 cuft or about 340lbs of floation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Pyeatt Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 The foam is odorless except when you cut it with a hot wire. The resulting smoke is a little obnoxious but there isn't much of it. The only advantage to using a hot wire over a saw is simply the smooth cut and sealed edge. Less mess too! I've done a lot of this before using 3-M spray adhesive for bonding the upholstery material to the foam. It has worked out well. But then it is used to bond fabric to upholstery foam as well so I don't know why it wouldn't. The self adhesive velcro doesn't like to bond with the foam too well on its own though. It drys out and then the velcro falls off. So I use the non-adhesive strips and panel adhesive. A couple of full length strips of velcro will hold a panel inplace thru just about anything. The advantage to this technique is that it can be removed if it gets damp inside the hull or for out of season storage. Leaving upholstered material inside a boat that is stored is a sure way to develop mildew in the upholstery. Once it is there, it is really difficult to remove it completely. So I also recommend that any and all things that can be removed from inside the boat, be removed. Hanks of rope, misc. things that just lay around. Open up any closed areas for ventilation and don't wrap things up tight with a tarp. Things that get wet tend to stay that way when a boat is closed up tight. I try to put a space heater on low inside if possible with an open source of air to flow thru the interior. It makes a huge difference. I also use a couple of the Dry-z-air canisters placed in the tighter areas to absorb moisture. I check them perodically and empty them. I don't know about how much weight a sheet of foam will support although I'm sure that data is somewhere that could be accessed. We commonly used 1" upholstered to line ceilings and wall areas in cabins of our work boats. They took a lot of abuse and the panels helped with noise dampening and insulation from both cold and heat. We did notice that there is less condensation in a glass or metal hull that is lined with it. That in itself is a bonus in my mind. But now they spray the cargo liner material and it is permanent. I would say you could use it between the hull and the ceiling boards if there is a way to remove it when stored. My greatest concern is ventilation and places for mold and mildew to generate. Once it gets started it is tough to control. If stored in a heated, dry environment it wouldn't be a problem. We laminated it between high pressure laminate panels to make wall panels and dividers. We also made hatch covers with it laminated between plywood and glassed. It works well. It won't absorb water because it is closed cell foam. Break it up into little pieces and it all floats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florin {VACATIONER} Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 So can anyone recommend any type of adhesive which can be used to glue the blue foam to painted wood or to itself???? Thanks Florin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florin {VACATIONER} Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 Does anyone know if the blue foam will deteriorate when exposed to elements for an extended period. We are planning to glue some up in the lazarette and under the deck behind the cockpit seats, but they will be exposed to water, etc. over there. Just wondering if they will last about 5 years, or will they start disintegrating... Thanks Florin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Pyeatt Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 Florin, Panel adhesive will work just fine. No the foam doesn't deteriorate in the elements in this use. It is relatively inert. If you left a panel outside exposed to the elements the blue would fade a bit and eventually (looooooonnnnnngggggggg time) it would probably begin to look dog eared. It is designed as insulation and in that use it lasts for longer than the life of the house. Moisture doesn't affect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 designed as insulation and in that use it lasts for longer than the life of the house Gosh, with talk of insulation, R-factors, adhesives and boats ....you would think Jake would be chiming in on his "cross-education" of the two and be ready to publish a white paper on this.... :-) Jake, how ya doin' bud? b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florin {VACATIONER} Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Thanks Barry, What is panel adhesive????? Never heared the term since I'm not in construction and not a handyman at home either. Thanks Florin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Pyeatt Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Panel adhesive is a thick viscous product sold in cartridges for caulking guns. Very tenacious stuff. The newer ones are polyurethanes. You could also use something like 3M 5200 but the panel adhesive is far less expensive and in this application very appropriate. There are a lot of brands that all seem to work about the same. PL makes a good one for this use it is sold as concrete adhesive. There have been some articles about using it ti attach stringers in building boats and it works well. It doesn't make a good caulk however. It is applied to the back of a panel of plywood or other material in a fairly good sized bead. In construction iuse it is applied in a zig-zag pattern over the back and along the edges of a panel. The panel is aligned with the adjoining surface and they are pressed together and then pulled apart. A few min. later they can be pressed together again and pressure applied to bond the two. It can also be applied to bare studs in a wall or to floor joists, etc. and the panel pressed into place, then removed and after a few min replaced and secured. In making a foam/ply composite it is spread with a notched trowel to give an even coverage, pressed into place,, removed for a few min and then aligned and replaced. Then pressure is applied, either with weight or by vacuum press or by running it thru a compression roller. In our case it is most practical to use another panel (3/4" thick recommended) on top and weight it with a lot of sand bags or 5 gallon buckets of liquid. Then let it set for several hours to cure. It doesn't need any other fasteners to hold it to the foam this way it is like a much tougher contact cement in a cartridge or a bucket. Once it has set up it can't be removed without distroying the materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florin {VACATIONER} Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 Thanks Barry, that makes sense now, I think that's what we used to bond the pink foam insulation and the fiberglass lining for our coolers in the cockpit seats. I just didn't know it was called panel adhesive :-). All this terminology kills us hehehe. Thanks Florin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florin {VACATIONER} Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 BTW, is there any significant difference between the pink and blue foam (other than color)? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Pyeatt Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 I think you would have to ask a Dow representitive that . I really don't know. I see a lot of blue here in the Puget Sound area, but I've also use some of the pink and it works just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.