CS 17 - New Guy

[Deepseadivver]

Excited to have just put a deposit down on a CS 17 kit and driving down to NC from Virginia Beach to pick it up late next week. Looking forward to sharing the build and eventual sail with my family. I am rushing to get my workshop cleared out by finishing up a few partially completed projects and I  wanted to prebuild the strongback/cradle in preparation. What are the dimensions of the cradle that would accept the forms that come with the CS17 kit? (The youtube Alan posted he said 4'x10' but that was for the CS15) Also, you think  kit crate can be loaded into the back of a small pickup? I can fit a sheet of 4x8 ply flat but it sticks out 12" with the gate down.

[Frank Hagan]

As you can see we lost a couple of messages here with the botched move to a new server. I apologize for that. The hosting company was not able to migrate the mailboxes on our customer's sites so I had to revert to the old server. Evidently "complete migration" doesn't include your email addresses or inboxes.

[Hirilonde]

I believe the crates are slightly larger than a sheet of plywood, but I would ask Alan and make sure of the exact size.

 

[PadrePoint]

I hope getting the kit to your house works out well.
I had a minivan and the shop guys loaded everything of my FULL kit into the vehicle as pieces, making it fit well (no crate). Since I preferred full length 16’ pieces for my CS15 the guys secured the long pieces to my roof rack. The 1,200 mile trip home went well, even with rain (the 16’ pieces were wrapped in plastic. I write this just to mention how helpful the B&B shop was in the “kit delivery” part of the project even though I provided the transportation.
And then, Alan and Graham (and others on the forum) provided all kinds of support during my CS building process.  Write about your progress and any questions you encounter. 
I’m hoping you gain the kinds of personal satisfaction in building a Core Sound and playing around with the completed project.

ENJOY!

My CS15 build blog:

https://messing-about.com/forums/topic/11802-core-sound-15-162-—-building-the-“norma-t”/

 

By the way, B&B also helped me with nearly all the building materials I needed for my 2021-2 build.  (It isn’t a B&B design but a boat I wanted to build since I was in high school… more than 50 years ago .)  Again, B&B provided very helpful support. 

 

[Deepseadivver]

Picked up the boat Thursday and have made some progress.

 

Questions:

 

1. for the transition from 9mm to 6mm on the bottom planks, I assume that we want to keep the surface flush on the exterior and let the fingers sit proud/taper on the interior?

 

2. the measurement point to point when bringing the two side pieces together. (Picture attached from plans) Alan’s video says it’s 78” for the core 15, is it the same for the 17?

 

[PadrePoint]

1.  That is what I recall from my build. Before I joined the bottom and side pieces in the bow with fiberglass (in preparation to folding and stitching the four pieces to make the hull) I filled the finger joint spaces and sanded them to make a smooth transition from 9mm to 6mm for the interior surface at the finger seams.  The outside surface of the seam was smooth and even; no sanding except to “clean” up some errant epoxy. 
 

Not sure if I described that clearly. 
 

2. Can’t help with this one.  I assume your kit pieces are CNC cut with the various fingers and gears for a correct fitting. 

[Don Silsbe]

I suggest calling Alan at B&B on Monday, if you don’t get a solid answer tonight.

[Paul356]

1.  Definitely keep the outside bottom flat, taper goes on the inside.

2. I dont think there is a precise measurement needed.  You take the front together, make sure the stem is fair, and the rest takes care of itself as you pull it togrther.

[Don Silsbe]

Paul356 is right about #1, I believe.  The outside is what matters here.

 

If I were you, I’d take a block plane to the inside surface, and create a taper down to 6mm.  When I taped the outside, I’d use straight (un-thickened) epoxy.  (Pre-saturate your tape, of course.) On the inside, I’d use straight epoxy to pre-saturate the wood and glass tape, but I’d paint on some thickened epoxy (mayonnaise consistency) to the tapered joint, before applying the tape.  In this way, there won’t be any air gaps in the tape-epoxy joint, if there are imperfections in your taper.  Air gaps are to be avoided at all costs.

 

Now, this is just my opinion, and not backed up with personal experience.  My Bay River Skiff does not have a butterfly hull design.  So, if you want the real skinny, give Alan a call.  But this is what I’d do.  Okoume planes like butter, so have no fear.  And if you don’t have a small block plane, I’d recommend getting one.  You’ll use it a lot on this project, even when building from a kit.

[Designer]

Yes everyone is correct. You want the out side of the bottom transition to be smooth.

 

It may seem obvious but pay attention, making sure that you pair the bottom panels to make sure that you do not end up with two left or right sides. You would be surprised by how often that happens. It was the very important lesson that this first time 15 yr old boat builder made with 2 left side centerboard trunk sides. I became obsessed with pairing parts ever since.

 

That measurement is different for every model. We do not usually use it on CNC cut boats because the panels are accurate and fit together without any slack. We use tapered finger joints to join our panels rather than puzzle joints like our competitors because it is a stronger joint. You do need to approach the glue-up differently. After buttering up both sets of fingers with epoxy, you can slide the joint together but leave some slack before you clamp them down flat, then tighten up the joint by hammering against a scrap of wood protecting the panel end. If you do it in the reverse order the fingers get so tight that it is hard to get the top and bottom surfaces to be in plane. When tightening the fingers I try to tap evenly across the panel to make sure that I am applying even force across the panel and do a visual check to see that the glue line is even across the sheet.

 

 

[Deepseadivver]

thanks all! Managed to get the bottom and sides folded up in the middle of all the 4th of July festivities. I left the keel wires a little too loose and will have to crawl under to tighten but feels good to have something in the garage that at least looks like a boat ️ !!

[Don Silsbe]

You’re off and running!  She looks good.  My overall plan during my builds was to do “something” every day.  It didn’t always work, and sometimes the something only took 15 minutes, but the momentum was maintained.  Momentum is important.

[Deepseadivver]

Made some progress last night, got the transom installed and filleted and glassed the corners. I am ready install the keel batten. Do I need to sandwich a strip of fiberglass between the hull and the keel batten? I believe the batten embedded in thickened epoxy would be enough, but I want to make sure I am reading the plans correctly.

 

 

[PadrePoint]

As I recall, I taped the keel joint down the center on the inside, letting it cure before I added the keel batten. I recall from Alan’s video series on this process (check it if you haven’t already… I always viewed the appropriate video again before starting another step.). I think the keel batten was somewhere in part 4 or 5 of the series. 

2nd video link on this page:

 https://bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs15

 

Anyway, for the keel batten I made a LOT of thickened epoxy, a “mush” as Alan called it. 

[Designer]

You can go either way with glass taping the inside keel seam. I think that it is strong enough without and that was the way that I designed it. There are a couple of points to consider. First, the boat is rather fragile at this point which means that you cannot hog down on the keel batten too hard to force it into place. It would be a lot stronger if the seam was taped.  If the keel was fitted nicely and you don't go crazy with props wedges and a hammer, you should be good. there have been a lot built without tape.

 

The second point is not be too frugal with thickened epoxy under the batten. I have seen  a couple of older boats get some rot in the keel over time. There was insufficient squeeze-out and the boats were put away with water in the bilge and those voids being at the lowest point in the boat just stayed wet. I would plane or use a round over bit in a router on the top of the keel batten, at least 1/4" radius except where the trunk touches it and at the mizzen mast step. I would use that squeezed out epoxy to lay in the biggest fillet I could in that corner at the keel batten/ bottom junction so that it could be made smooth. The sealer coats of epoxy resin that you will coat the boat with will give you an excellent protective coating. Not to mention that it will look great, be easy to clean and hopefully have a long happy life.

[Deepseadivver]

Thanks all for the feedback and tips! I made some good progress this long weekend! I glasses all the hull seams, installed the forward bulkhead, and keel batten (with loads of squeeze out.)

 

 

[Steve W]

Looks great!

[Dnjost]

Congrats on a great choice of boat!  I was thinking back to my build and 2 things I will always remember.  

 

1.  get help with the unfolding when going from 2D to 3D.  It happens REAL FAST!

 

2.  Check that the transom is tied in tight.  If not, a hump will be seen in the last few feet of the bottom panels.  Constantly check that all panels are fair prior to glass and epoxy.  

 

When time allows, I am going to do my next build.  This fall, I am modifying my forward mast to accommodate a tabernacle as the bridge between me and the Atlantic has 10' clearance.  photos will be posted of the conversion.