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Guest Mike - Oregon

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Guest Phil Davis (TX)

John, Yup +59F Brrrrr

I guess there are some advantages to being in the HOT south! When I think it is cold, you guys think it is summer! And I don't have to heat my propane. I just keep it in the shed out back, or on the BBQ.

I am curious.... How much of a difference is the daily temperature up there in Alaska? Here, the difference between the High and the Low is about 20 to 25 F. I know in Redding (where my dad lives) it is about 30F difference.

phil@coolbluedesigns.com

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Guest Frank Hagan, Weekender, O

: Local church burned down when it was undergoing

: renovations because when workers left for the

: day and closed the door, vibration caused a

: 9 volt battery to fall off a shelf and into

: some steel wool.

We used to light cigarettes with steel wool wrapped around a comb and fastened into points, then stuck into electrical recepticles. We weren't allowed to play with matches (parents never thought about telling us not to smoke, or put steel wool into the outlets!)

fshagan@ev1.net

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Guest Andrew Butchart; Neustadt

I was chatting with the kid at the local CoOp while I was getting my propane tank for the BBQ refilled during the summer. He was saying that he had a woman who was quite upset at him - she wanted him to set the tank on her lap in her car while she was smoking.

Me - I don't have a trunk to carry such things in with the Jeep so the tank sits in behind the passenger seat and the windows get cranked down. Or I just take the top and doors off - lots of ventilation then :-D

I've been enjoying this thread. My wife and I have been trying to decide what kind of heat to get for emergencies and perhaps some supplemental heat. I'd seen kerosene stoves on sale but now that I'd heard of the issues with it leaving a film on everything, that one won't work. I'm leaning towards one of the little catalytic heaters that attach to the small propane cylinders. At worst, I figure I can heat one room for a day or so with that and a lot of fuzzy sweaters. It's a tough decision - what to buy that you may never need. In the 12 years we've lived here, we've never had a power outage of more than 10 hours in the winter.

andrewb@abutchartconsulting.com

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Guest capt jake

I'm leaning towards one of the little catalytic heaters that attach to the small propane cylinders. At worst, I figure I can heat one room for a day or so with that and a lot of fuzzy sweaters. It's a tough decision - what to buy that you may never need

Mine is rated at 15000 BTU's. More than enough to heat my 21x40 shop in about an hour (depending on starting temps).

Cheap and easy to use. Portable to move to specific 'jobs'.

jwentz4@attbi.com

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Guest Ray Frechette jr

Shoot Andrew, instead of getting an emergency heater for power outages, get a electric generator.

This is assuming of ocurse that you don't heat with electric heat of course.

a 2000 watt generator will power up your oil furnace and circulators quite nicely, and run your household lighting.

Need to hook up the house wiring for it. Some ways are cheap[er and simpler than othrs.

Cost under 300.00 US

refent@prodigy.net

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Guest Ray Frechette jr

Heat load requirements for most houses is around 75,000 BTU to 100,000 BTU.

Varies of course according to ambient air temps wind load, and exposure and square footage insulation...

But consider 75,000 btu to be close to minimum btu requirements nort of about 44 degrees North Latitude.

refent@prodigy.net

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Guest Frank Hagan, Weekender, O

: I've been enjoying this thread. My wife and I

: have been trying to decide what kind of heat

: to get for emergencies and perhaps some

: supplemental heat. I'd seen kerosene stoves

: on sale but now that I'd heard of the issues

: with it leaving a film on everything, that

: one won't work. I'm leaning towards one of

: the little catalytic heaters that attach to

: the small propane cylinders. At worst, I

: figure I can heat one room for a day or so

: with that and a lot of fuzzy sweaters. It's

: a tough decision - what to buy that you may

: never need. In the 12 years we've lived

: here, we've never had a power outage of more

: than 10 hours in the winter.

Some of the propane catalytic heaters can be used indoors, but you have to be careful. Any time you burn a hydrocarbon ... gasoline, natural gas, propane, etc., ... one of the byproducts is carbon monoxide gas (CO). It is colorless, odorless, and you don't know its poisoning you because in the early stages you get sleepy, a little nauseated, and you head for bed because you don't feel well. Then often the person may vomit, but more likely will slip into a coma and be either permanently injured or killed. So its serious stuff. Here in the states, there are about 200 serious incidents or deaths each year, usually from home heating.

The newer catalytic heaters have an "Oxygen Depletion Sensor", which purports to shut off the heater before the CO displaces all the oxygen. These aren't CO monitors, and I don't trust them. I'd recommend that your purchase of a non-electric emergency heater -- whether its kerosine, propane, or whatever -- include the purchase of a battery operated CO monitor ... which you can find in any of the large department stores now (in the states, WalMart carries them.)

If you get stuck without a CO monitor, keep some cross ventilation going. Open a window an inch on one side of the room, and open another window an inch on the other side, and make sure air is flowing from one end of the room to the other. You can check this by blowing smoke in front of the window to see if air is escaping (or lighting a match and blowing it out to see where the smoke goes). CO gas is just slightly lighter than air, so it tends to go where the air currents take it.

Sorry about this being so long ... I get involved in several cases a year where people have died, and I'm a little paranoid about it. My house has two CO monitors with continuous readouts, and I check them daily.

fshagan@ev1.net

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Guest J Metzner - Fairbanks, AK

Phil wrote:

I am curious.... How much of a difference is the daily temperature up there in Alaska? Here, the difference between the High and the Low is about 20 to 25 F. I know in Redding (where my dad lives) it is about 30F difference.

During the summer, 20+ hours of sun, it can temps can climb about the same you see there, 20-30 degrees. You can get a frost on nearly any day of the year, although July is usually safe.

During the hard winter Nov.- Feb., when you're under 6 hours of sun, there's not much solar heating going on. Highs and Lows will only vary 5 or so degrees. You get more change from weather fronts coming through than from solar heating.

--John M.

woodchuck@gci.net

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Guest J Metzner - Fairbanks, AK

Be careful if you go the generator route. Check with your local power company about the proper way to connect this into your house wiring. Seperate generators are quite common up here, because the power is so unreliable outside of town. The local power co-op has a pamphlet on how to do it right so you don't back-feed into the supply lines. It requires some type of full disconnect breaker to the power feed for the house.

Feeding back into the power lines can cause a nasty suprize for the folks trying to reconnect your power.

--John M

woodchuck@gci.net

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Guest Andrew Butchart; Neustadt

We've had a CO2 monitor for the last couple of years plugged in to a low outlet on the mail floor. I check the battery in it every few months. Since the house is fairly drafty - we've never had a reading on it although I've tested it according the manufacturer's directions and it's working fine.

I have often thought that a generator would be a good idea, but have not bought one because of the cost and setup factors. I think that I'm going to go for a catalytic heater after doing some more reading up on them. We're also evaluating the possibility of going to a propane space heater vented through the wall as well but that certainly won't happen this year.

andrewb@abutchartconsulting.com

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Guest Ray Frechette jr

You can get a transfer case at Home depot for a hundred dollars about.

There are easier cheaper means to get a few items running in the house.

One thing I have done in apartment houses I own is to have the furnace electrical feed wired to a 110 volt household plug. Next to the circuit breaker panel is an electrical outelt that is wired to it's own circuit.

In the event of a pwer outage that is lasting a bit, I run an extension cord down to the circuit breaker panel, and plug the furnace into it.

Instant furnace on, totally separated and isolated fromPower company. Same can be done with general lighting circuit and refrigerator circuit. You could also runa wire from where oyu would keep the generator running down to the panel and wire a simple receptacle to it, then you simply unplug circuit from Power company outlet, and plug into generator outlet.

We had a giant Icestorm in 1998. Were without electric power for three weeks in a metropolitan center of 50,000 people.

Obviously you need to wire correctly, but it need not be terribly expensive. a 2000 watt generator is under 300.00 US new, and can easily run your furnace and lights. You can also swap from furnace to fridge from time to time to keep fridge going.

refent@prodigy.net

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Guest Ray Frechette jr

IIRC catalytic heaters are not reccomended for use where someone will be sleeping due to CO concerns. Also a cat heater is going to leberate a fair amount of moisture into the air as a product of combustion. They can cause significant condensation to form on inside windows.

refent@prodigy.net

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Guest Frank Hagan, Weekender, O

I had forgotten about the condensation issue, but it is true ... there's a lot of moisture in propane gas.

There are some "ventless" heaters that say on the label they are "safe" for indoor use, but I don't trust them. Still, I understand the need to keep from freezing to death. So I guess the best recommendation is to follow their directions closely.

If I were in a cold area, I think I would opt for the generator idea. Oh, and make sure its exhaust is vented correctly! ;)

fshagan@ev1.net

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Guest capt jake

No matter what you burn, a by product of combustion is H2O. Thus, there will be condensation on any form or fuel burning appliance, unless it is vented to the outside. No worries! I live in (one of)the most 'moist' environments there is. No problem.

Now your folks in SoCal!! Well there may be a rain cloud forming there. :D:) LOL

Keep a few windows open! My shop was so hot I had to turn off the heater tonight. I didn't open the doors because I want the epoxy to really cure for tommorrow! :D

jwentz4@attbi.com

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