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Lapwing #27 Lula


Kennneee
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Mike- Thanks for the tip on the Microwave.  I have never owned one if you can believe that.  I am still back in the middle of the 20th century.  Don’t even have a leisure suit yet!  This place in SD has one so I might try that trick.  How does epoxy go with Pop Tarts?  Always appreciate the input from people that are in the know!

Ken

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18 minutes ago, Kennneee said:


Mike- Thanks for the tip on the Microwave.  I have never owned one if you can believe that.  I am still back in the middle of the 20th century.  Don’t even have a leisure suit yet!  This place in SD has one so I might try that trick.  How does epoxy go with Pop Tarts?  Always appreciate the input from people that are in the know!

Ken

There are cheap microwaves for 50 bucks or so at wallyworld. But for some reason I have never connected the dots of epoxy and pop tarts. But now that you bring it up, maybe that's why I seem to gain more weight when microwaving and eating pop tarts while building boats . I guess they stick to me more than normal.😝

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@kennee— The key is to heat up your Pop Tarts right after microwaving your epoxy.  The epoxy fumes really add a special kick to them!

[Message from Don’s attorneys (Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe):  Please disregard last comment!)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi Guys- Got the last plank on Lula this week.  I haven’t been able to get long days in so progress has been slower than expected.  The kit is a great time saver. The accuracy is really amazing to me.  Alan thought it could be planked in a day but that would have to be done by someone more talented the me.  I tried several techniques to streamline the process and by last one I think I got a good rhythm.  Filling the laps with epoxy can done a number of different ways.  Slathering both planks before assembly, using a syringe after assembly or a combination of both.  In any case, it can get a bit messy and more time consuming than I imagined.  I tried staples, screws, and strapping tape to hold the planks in place.  The best solution seemed to be using plywood pads and screws.  The planks are quite thin so the screws have to be fine tuned to get the correct pressure.  The strapping tape works well to hold the end of the plank to the transom while the epoxy kicks.  The end result is a beautiful hull.  

Cutting the gains in the bow turned out to be a simple operation and I was able to get them done on under 10 minutes each.  I don’t have my rebate plane here in San Diego so I simply put the bottom plank in place temporarily, used it as a guide for my pull saw to score the plank above.  Removed to bottom plank and cheated with my Festool RO90 detail sander to do most of the work.  I then use a quality rasp to finish it off.  Worked great.  Murray made a really cool jig to cut the gains with his router.  My method is a bit more Neanderthal.  Alan indicated that future kits may have the gains pre-cut.

Now I am on to fileting the seams and doing some fairing, sanding, etc. I had to have a bit of a dram to celebrate the last plank. Carter, HighDesert, visited me on Salt Spring a few years ago and brought a bottle of Rye Whisky when he came.  Carter, this is not the same bottle.  The other evaporated.

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Last winter, I built a CLC Annapolis Wherry, which is. Also glued lap construction.  In their manual, they recommend cutting the gains with a combination of a rasp (a Shinto file is in the photos) and a sanding block.  She looks lovely.  You did fine.

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10 hours ago, Designer said:

Ken,

 

That plank line looks as sweet as the model does.

Could that have anything to do with the design?

1 hour ago, Don Silsbe said:

Last winter, I built a CLC Annapolis Wherry, which is. Also glued lap construction.  In their manual, they recommend cutting the gains with a combination of a rasp (a Shinto file is in the photos) and a sanding block.  She looks lovely.  You did fine.

How did you do the glue up? Syringe?  

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Pretty work sir, but if I may be so bold, working in primitive regions of the "world" there is only one tool that you need for cutting gains  and truing up joints, which can be done with a simple 29.95 angle grinder purchased at any big box stores with a soft pad.  Draw you a line and apply 12,000 rpm to a soft pad and 36 grit disc.  for around 30 seconds, tapering the layers and glue up. If you wish, take floor surfacing paper and a small wooden block to smooth the tapers out.  Mission accomplished. 

P.S., now the warning label,, don't attempt this with extra fingers and legs bracing up the ends of thin woods and while trying to drink almost all of the rye whiskey bottle up except for a few sips to bless the last plank.😛 

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12 hours ago, Oyster said:

Pretty work sir, but if I may be so bold, working in primitive regions of the "world" there is only one tool that you need for cutting gains  and truing up joints, which can be done with a simple 29.95 angle grinder purchased at any big box stores with a soft pad.  Draw you a line and apply 12,000 rpm to a soft pad and 36 grit disc.  for around 30 seconds, tapering the layers and glue up. If you wish, take floor surfacing paper and a small wooden block to smooth the tapers out.  Mission accomplished. 

P.S., now the warning label,, don't attempt this with extra fingers and legs bracing up the ends of thin woods and while trying to drink almost all of the rye whiskey bottle up except for a few sips to bless the last plank.😛 

Good advice! I will try that technique on the next boat.  Better get another bottle to have on hand.  Well, maybe not.  This is the last boat I will ever build.  Just like the last three.

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19 hours ago, Don Silsbe said:

@Kennneee— yes, I used a syringe for gluing up the planks.  There’s a build thread about it on the main forum entitled “Don Builds a Kit!”

Don- Beautiful job on the wherry!  I wonder if all the joints were completly filled with epoxy usiing the syringe.  Perhaps it isn’t critical.  I obsessed on the Lapwing about getting enough epoxy in between the planks.  

 

Filling holes after screws, staples or wire are used for construction is a pain.  I ofter take a countersink and slightly enlarge the holes.  It seems counter productive but it is is easier getting epoxy into the holes.  Going underneath the inverted hull makes it easier to see where they are since light will shine through each hole.  Fill from underneath first.

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1 hour ago, Kennneee said:

Don- Beautiful job on the wherry!  I wonder if all the joints were completly filled with epoxy usiing the syringe.  Perhaps it isn’t critical.  I obsessed on the Lapwing about getting enough epoxy in between the planks.  

 

Filling holes after screws, staples or wire are used for construction is a pain.  I ofter take a countersink and slightly enlarge the holes.  It seems counter productive but it is is easier getting epoxy into the holes.  Going underneath the inverted hull makes it easier to see where they are since light will shine through each hole.  Fill from underneath first.

Of course depending on the sized screws used , when removing them, just get a box of golf tees or three or six, which can be purchased online and coat the ends  with epoxy and tap them in the holes. Let dry and then  grind or sand off after cutting them fat.

 

You are always dealing with some dishes in the wood if you use thickened epoxy and let it get really hard and sand the areas. The wood around the holes  naturally sands easier, causing some  cosmetic issues and additional work when finishing the boat.

 

This is an alternative from using thickened epoxy and dealing with some of the downsides of just thickened epoxy down the road under topcoat paints. 

 

We also use a combination of cabosil and microlight for thickening agent. The rational reason is that when you use just thickened cabosil, this is a different makeup and density from the wood and you can get some print thru the topcoat paint down the road.

 

 

The microlight blend can shrink a bit too but softer and less epoxy to create a harder surface than the wood along side the holes.. So leave the fill a bit high and let it cure for a couple of days before smoothing the fill out.

 

The golf tees are simular to the wood no matter the type of wood they are made of and minimizes most of the print thru.  Of course they are not always the same wood as your plywood.  But when you use Okumne and do not glass, the wood is not really much different than how the Okumne face skins age under proper primer and topcoats for trailable boats. YMMV  and may vary from the designers suggestions...So I say experiment and see what works for you. 

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Thanks for the kudos, guys.  It was a fun build.  With over 300 wire holes, I kept finding unfilled holes even into the priming step.  I used Quick Fair on the exterior holes, and epoxy thickened with wood flour & cabo on the varnished interior.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/16/2021 at 12:34 PM, Kennneee said:

I have been doing some work on the masts.  The 10:1 scarfs worked out well. I cut the birds mouths but made a rookie mistake on the mizzen.  Thought I could get one mast done before dinner the other night and rushed my set up. Long story short, the staves are slightly narrower than they should be but I am pretty sure it will be ok.  Woodworking has a way of keeping me humble.

The next is tapering the staves.  I gave it a lot of thought and decided my track saw would be the best way to do it quickly and accurately.  The set up took some time but then each taper takes less than a minute to cut and yields a pretty perfect taper.  I did one mast so far and will do the other one later today.  Well, maybe I should do it tomorrow as it is getting late and I should learn from my mistakes!  I put the mizzen together without glue to check the fit and it seems pretty good.

Years ago I built a 20’ strongback on wheels for my strip boat builds.  It has been really handy for building these masts so far.  I have been noodling on the best way to glue up the mast and the strongback will be a key player in that step as well.  I am waiting for some epoxy to show up here before I can do the assembly.  Won’t have it until mid week so I might start cutting wood for the centerboard.  The weather here has been pretty lousy or we would be doing some short trips on Rosie.  Glad to have this project to work on in these wet British Columbia days.

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Tracksaws are the best thing. Ever. 

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On 10/29/2021 at 12:05 AM, Hirilonde said:

A few years ago I was talking to Graham at the Woodenboat Show at Mystic Seaport. I was metioning that I might want lighter masts down the road and he suggested an option.  A thin wall birdsmouth mast covered with a carbon sleeve/epoxy. Dunno that it will ever happen.  I hate sloppy/messy work. I like wood.

 

Nice kayaks.  

How about the other way around? Carbon tube (I have some prototype Laser/ILCA carbon tubes that I am considering covering in a veneer of Alaskan Cedar)

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On 11/7/2021 at 2:42 PM, Don Silsbe said:

There are two schools of thought regarding epoxy under varnish.  You may well have woken the sleeping giant.  I like it, but it has a down side.  Every several years, varnish should be stripped off and redone.  If the base is epoxy, it’s not so easy.  On the other hand, what about all those strip-built and varnished canoes?  Are they all wrong?

 

I would not do it on your masts.  The wind and snotters induce a lot of bend into the masts.  I’d be concerned that the epoxy-varnish would check.  I’d just use varnish.  
 

Your masts are gorgeous, by the way.

So true - those masts are a work of art. Quite inspiring really...

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On 11/13/2021 at 7:59 AM, Hirilonde said:

Bristol Finish is as hard to repair as epoxy resin when either it discolors, or physical damage is done. 

 

Here is a picture of my transom. It has 3 coats of epoxy and many, many coats of real varnish.  The blotches showed up at around 2 years.  At that point I had close to 20 coats of varnish. I tried sanding down and hoping the yellowing was in one of the varnish layers, but it was not.  I decided to leave it alone. trying to sand through 2 years cured epoxy and not go through the Sapele vener of the transom seemed way too risky.  It hasn't gotten any worse, this picture is today. Varnish can be removed with a heat gun and a semi sharp scraper down to the wood easily and safely.  2 part anything is another story.  For painted surfaces there is no real issue. Epoxy filler can repair all damage.  But when it is supposed to stay bright, it is a different issue.

IMG_8489.JPG

20 coats. OK, Dave it's official, you are prepared to go the extra mile...

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On 1/26/2022 at 5:02 PM, Kennneee said:

Hi Guys- Got the last plank on Lula this week.  I haven’t been able to get long days in so progress has been slower than expected.  The kit is a great time saver. The accuracy is really amazing to me.  Alan thought it could be planked in a day but that would have to be done by someone more talented the me.  I tried several techniques to streamline the process and by last one I think I got a good rhythm.  Filling the laps with epoxy can done a number of different ways.  Slathering both planks before assembly, using a syringe after assembly or a combination of both.  In any case, it can get a bit messy and more time consuming than I imagined.  I tried staples, screws, and strapping tape to hold the planks in place.  The best solution seemed to be using plywood pads and screws.  The planks are quite thin so the screws have to be fine tuned to get the correct pressure.  The strapping tape works well to hold the end of the plank to the transom while the epoxy kicks.  The end result is a beautiful hull.  

Cutting the gains in the bow turned out to be a simple operation and I was able to get them done on under 10 minutes each.  I don’t have my rebate plane here in San Diego so I simply put the bottom plank in place temporarily, used it as a guide for my pull saw to score the plank above.  Removed to bottom plank and cheated with my Festool RO90 detail sander to do most of the work.  I then use a quality rasp to finish it off.  Worked great.  Murray made a really cool jig to cut the gains with his router.  My method is a bit more Neanderthal.  Alan indicated that future kits may have the gains pre-cut.

Now I am on to fileting the seams and doing some fairing, sanding, etc. I had to have a bit of a dram to celebrate the last plank. Carter, HighDesert, visited me on Salt Spring a few years ago and brought a bottle of Rye Whisky when he came.  Carter, this is not the same bottle.  The other evaporated.

A6D176C1-EA09-4165-8D58-C61CE117D18B.jpeg

FA8A0E2C-EBD0-40B5-937A-6F4C782B54AF.jpeg

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E6DC34B5-D312-4353-BB82-F8FEC4BC085D.jpeg

That's outstanding. I've looked long and hard at these pics and I just can't fault the result.

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