Intersested in the CS20 mk3

[digver]

Hello Everyone,

 

We looking for a boat and from what I can see there's a lot to like about the CS20 mk3. Unfortunately I've yet to see one outside of pictures. I'm wondering if there's anyone interested in showing off their boat to us? We live in Philly and the upper parts of the Chesapeake are easy for us to get to. At the moment we are planning to be at Prospect Bay the weekend of Jun 12.   I've been following Graham's trip reports of Carlita's Delmarva circumnavigation and know he's  close by right now, but he'd probably be hard to find.

 

Besides not having seen a Core Sound 20 there are issues with building one -- living in Philly we have no place to build one. The other problem is though I feel confident I  my skills to do a build, I don't have the time to take it on, and not having a boat now do not want to wait years before getting in one. Is it a crazy idea to consider commissioning a builder to do it for us. I don't know if it is possible, but my thought would be to have it built far enough to get it on the water and then finish it out ourselves.

 

digger

[Steve W]

I'm in Upstate NY near Rochester, probably too far for you to travel to see, but I love the boat, and I'd be happy to take you sailing.

 

But you have a bunch of red flags in your post. To have one built to the point of sailing it I think would cost quite a bit. Off the top of my head I would thing at least 30k but probably more. Add a a motor and trailer and that certainly isn't a great value in today's market. I built mine and enjoyed it, and considered that part of the fun (except all that sanding!). 

 

A friend just bought a Bayraider Expedition from Swallow boats ($45k). He said "but you saved so much money!" I would say that if I had a minimum wage job and worked the hours it took me to build Skeena and the cost othe kit and extras it would be a wash. A pro could probably work faster, but there is a lot of work. His boat has a way higher resale value. But again, I enjoyed the build (except all the sanding!) and I have the pride of building and sailing a boat I built myself. 

[digver]

Steve, thanks for your reply --and the reply is about what I expected to get!

 

Thanks for the offer to check out Skeena. I had thought to contact you, but then saw where in NY you are. We are going to be leaving on a road trip in a few weeks, likely north, but along the coast.

 

I was about certain of the cost of even a partial build would be prohibitive but thought I'd ask anyway. The material cost for a CS20 looks reasonable but all that labor needs to be paid for one way or another!  Cat ketches are a definite draw for me, too bad there are so few boats around that are -- especially those with a real shallow draft and unstayed  tabernacle masts. I've also looked at the NIS sharpies but like the CS20 need either time or money.

The other direction I've been pursuing is catboats which are a lot easier to come by and for me will be equally satisfying. And keep my eye out for a for a used cat ketch.

 

digger

[AmosSwogger]

Graham can be easily found by following his spot link here:  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1osGfp6a4ErMMAfuJg40ViiUsHf77PFLvF4oaW8H8OXk/edit

 

He is heading to the southern end of the bay now, but is heading to your AO.  I highly recommend intercepting him (keep in mind the CS 17.3 is significantly smaller than the 20.3). 

 

Our family built the CS 20.3.  Sometimes we sail with our neighbor who has a similar length shallow-draft cat boat (his is 21 ft long with a similarly sized cabin, ours is 20 ft long).  His catboat is well made, but we are twice as fast.  We literally sail circles around him.  Even though he has one mast, and we have two, we can rig our boat much faster.  The CS 20.3 is half the weight.  He pushes his with a 6 HP motor, we use a 2.5 HP.  Obviously I'm biased (I hope this post doesn't come across as being arrogant or boastful), but I wouldn't get a catboat.

 

We sail in the Chesapeake Bay frequently (we like to put in at Harborton, near Onancock).  The boat is perfect for the bay, we have tucked in some really shallow coves for the night.  You welcome to check our boat out if you find yourself in the Norfolk/VA Beach area.

 

Here is ours in Florida:

 

 

 

Here is Graham's boat crossing the sound in NC.

You are 

 

[Jknight611]

They sail like magic!

 

 

 

  Although with the Flinders project I vaguely remember! 

[Randy Jones]

CS20Mk3's don't come up for sale often but the CS17Mk1's and CS20Mk1's are more common and could scratch your itch while you wait.  Something from a talented home builder that followed the plans and took their time with the build would be ideal.

I own a traditional 15' cat boat, a CS17mk1, and a Belhaven19.   The CS17 sails circles around the cat.  B19 is a floating RV but still faster than the cat.   Like children, I love them all equally but would take the CS17 to the race. 

    

[Hirilonde]

I really like the detail of the sides of the raised deck/cabin on Southern Express.  It makes the boat look leaner.  Was that before they raised the cabin top?  Anyway, I think it is the white above the blue that just makes all the difference.

 

Commissioning a boat, if you can find a trustworthy builder who doesn't have to make a living building boats. I decided that if I were ever to build a Lapwing for someone I would have to get at least $35,000 (complete on trailer)  And even then I wouldn't get rich.  There are people how ever who enjoy it so much that they would build for a modest fee.  Good luck with finding a solution.  They are great boats.

[Mark Rendelman hull 24]

I am building a cs mk3 hull #24 the cost of the kit is just the beginning it is not a hard build but it is challenging and it takes quite a bit of room to build and have room to move around ,  this boat is costly in the end you will put in many hours but the out come is well worth it 

[Jknight611]

Hi Dave,  my boat, Southern Express CS20.3 is s/n2.  The raising of the cabin top is quite recent, don’t know what s/n the  change took place.  I have comfortable full sitting head room,  sure is nice to have a cozy place to lounge around after a day of sailing !

[Reacher]

Charlie Jones, South Texas Sailing, is a skilled boatbuilder who has built Core Sound models for others. He is in Magnolia Beach, Texas. I don’t know if he would be interested or available but he would be a source of information about doing it that way.

Another option would be to find a boatbuilding club, school, or class to do the work at their facilities. You provide the kit and supplies, they get to do the work. For many people the joy of wooden boats is being able to build one without having to own it at the end. 

[Hirilonde]

Charly is a member here, and we were both members of the Classic Plastic forum.  If he is interested I would recommend him. He may be off cruising his Rhodes Meridian.

[digver]

Amos, thanks for the spot link for Graham. When I looked at where he is  I had to laugh! When I saw Chesapeake City mentioned in his trip log thread I was thinking Chesapeake City on the C&D Canal and thought, "man, he must be really cooking to be there already!"  Didn't occur to me there are other Chesapeake Cities.

 

For some reason I also missed that Carlita is a 17.3 and not a 20.3. It must have been that big wheel he's installed in the cockpit that threw me ‹grin›. 

 

You also mention weight and engine size. Our car is a Mini Cooper and we've never thought of trailering a boat. But, looking at the weight of the CS20.3 I started to get excited that it might be actually possible -- that we might be able to squeak by and do it. Though it was pointed out to me the put-in ramps might be a challenge.

[digver]

Jay,  That's what I'm talking about. The time you spend building a boat -- you're not in your boat.

 

On the other hand as Steve and  others have said there is pleasure in building (except for all that sanding), and the even greater pleasure in knowing it was your own hands that built it. I've done some building in a wide range of fields and know that satisfaction.   On the other hand, despite feeling that taking on a boat project of something like a CS20 would not be a wise decision for me at this time, I'm also sure it would irk me that it was something I've handed over to someone else.

 

As far as the Max Flinders that looks like it's one nice boat and have enjoyed reading your thread. If I were anywhere close to you I'd be asking to take a look at what your doing

[digver]

Mark, I'm sure I've looked at about all the CS20 build logs and threads, I know yours was among them.

 

Trying to get some idea of the material cost I added up everything on the B&B order page, added in what I thought was a generous amount for stuff like dimensional lumber, lights, engine, etc. To me it seemed a reasonable amount for quality materials. Plus, if you're doing your own build it doesn't need to come out of your paocket all at one time.

[digver]

It's been a while, but I've wanted to reply.  

 

Thanks a lot to those of you who offered suggestions on how a boat might be commissioned. A boatbuilding school is a good idea and I happened upon one school's website that mentioned commissions. For now at least I won't be building or commissioning any boat.

 

Randy, I've decided to scratch that itch to get on the water by looking for a used catboat and hope to be out sailing before the end of summer. One reason for opting for a catboat is we'll have a 2 hour drive to get to any boat and really want something with a cuddy so we can easily stay onboard. Even so,  as much as I like catboat, is hard for me to not think there'll be a cat yawl in my future.

 

Beyond being nice boats, I was attracted to CS in part because of the strong community and support around them. I'm happy to say there is a similar community with Chesapeake Catboats Association. We've met a few members who are familiar with the CS boats and some of their owners but I didn't get any names.

 

Hoping to see some of you on the water. digger