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CS 17 motor selection


Curt Varner

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I have a CS 17 that I built back in 2010 or so.  Never had a chance to get a motor for it (have been using sweeps), but now looking for suggestions to power in and out of sailing areas and if the wind dies, etc.  I was thinking of the 3 HP torquedo with an external motor mount bolted through the transom.  Any suggestions?  

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I have both a Tohatsu 3.5, and Honda 2.5 to power my CS17.  I love the Honda,  20" shaft.  25 would be better for my waters, but the motor is solid.  But, loud.

 

The 3.5 Tohatsu was a bit finicky and I relegated it to the back up pile.  It would fail to start at the most inopportune time, usually with guests aboard.  I believe the motor suffered from oil lock up when heeled in the upright position.  I discovered that with both motors, If I moved them storage side down when in the upright position, they would both fire right up when needed.  

 

I discovered that the newer small motors are now being made to not be so sensitive to up side, and down side while in transit.  A huge bonus.  

 

That said, yes a Torquedo would be awesome.  No gas to spill.  

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I can only compare the Suzuki 2.5 and the Honda 2, which is now 2.3. Both pushed my CS 20.3 just fine. I loved the Honda until I got the Suzuki. It's a lot quieter and has a real F-N shift and not that centrifugal clutch the Honda had. They both weigh about the same and are real good on gas. I've thought about having a bigger motor to run tides, but light weight is key.

 

I do like the sound of the this: https://www.epropulsion.com/spirit-evo/

 

I have had Skeena plenty times over 4 knots and the fact it could charge itself looks promising.

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I have a Suzuki 2.5 on my Bay River Skiff 15.  It is a sweet motor.  I was very concerned about oil lock-up, but not anymore.  I am careful how I lay it down.  When I do get oil lock-up, I simply remove the spark plug, give it a few tugs, and button everything back up.  Starts on the first pull.  A Torqueedo is nice, and I’m sure a few will weigh in on that.  To me, they are an expensive and heavy answer to a simple problem.

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I'm very pleased with the Suzi 2.5 on my 17.  My solution to oil lock is to avoid overfill and to store it with the pull cord facing down, or resting on the mounting bracket.

I think the long shaft would mount right on the transom edge, if you made a little horizontal cutout and reinforced it.  I got the short shaft because it's all they had then.  The 2.5 pushes my 17 at 6 mph in calm flat water, pushed it at 5+ into 2-foot seas and 25mph wind.  In other words, very sufficient power.

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I bought a Torqeedo 1103 from B&B. I have only had it out once. I had a max speed of 5.4 knots and a range of 10 nm at various speeds. Some of the earlier Torqeedos are not as quiet. The 1103 is very quiet. The first time I started it up I gave the throttle a little twist and did not realize the motor was running until I noticed the boat moving. Ease of starting, no fumes or fuel onboard, and quiet those are the real advantages in my mind. The Torqeedo is significantly more expensive and it is 8 or so pounds heavier than the Suzi, and Honda but it is lighter than the Tohatsu.

I hope to have the boat on the water for some testing soon.

Torqeedo lists the 1103 as 3hp equivalent. The gas engines will likely have a somewhat higher top speed and of course there is no comparing the range. Time will tell but I think the electric has real potential. 

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I do not want to sail with the motor on the transom, mostly for aesthetic reasons. There are other reasons for wanting to be able to store the motor  in a locker. Someone with a 17 maybe able to give you some information about storing a motor in a CS 17. A standard seat locker won't work. The Torqeedo has a little advantage when storing in that both the battery and the tiller arm separate easily from the motor unit. I can fit the motor in my lazarette and the battery and tiller can go in a locker. The long shaft is 5 inches longer which will make storing more difficult, but I do not like cavitation. Someone with more motor experience could speak to the cavitation issue but I often hear it mentioned. My feeling is that on a dinghy you can do the short shaft but on a 17 and up you could face some cavitation issues.

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Thanks Joe, I will check out the full specs on the long shaft and if it looks like a fit that's how I'll go.

 

Off topic, but I see you are summering (love that term) on Narragansett.  I am up in Hopkinton, MA.  Any suggestions for CS17 launching sites on the Narragansett or surrounding areas would be much appreciated.  Curt.

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As I see it, the biggest issue is running time/range for an electric.  I conclude they are now a great choice for daysailors.  Not so much for cruising.  Unless you have a good solar charger and don't use it a lot. I look at electric motors the same way I look at water-borne 2 part LPUs. There are a few sacrifices, but health and envirnonmental concerns put both over the top.

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I'd learned that comparisons between gas and electric motor and even between electric motors are difficult as they all present their data differently.  I have an EP Carry electric outboard (250W input, perhaps 1hp equivalent output) that moves my CS17 at 2.9 knots.  I use it as a substitute for rowing when the wind dies, but not much more.  It may however provide a useful data point (250 Watts into a CS17 results in 2.9 knots)

If the Torquedo you're looking at is 3 hp equivalent model 1103C with 1,000 W input I'd guess you might make 4 knots at half throttle for 6 hours.  Full throttle maybe 5+ knots for up to an hour.  

Would that be adequate? 

If you drop the $2,600 please share test results. 

good luck. 

 

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On 4/13/2021 at 10:33 AM, Hirilonde said:

As I see it, the biggest issue is running time/range for an electric.  I conclude they are now a great choice for daysailors.  Not so much for cruising.  Unless you have a good solar charger and don't use it a lot. I look at electric motors the same way I look at water-borne 2 part LPUs. There are a few sacrifices, but health and envirnonmental concerns put both over the top.

I don’t want to hijack this discussion, but I need to ask about your LPU comment.  I was enthusiastic about the environmental aspect of the stuff.  But it was horrible in the application.  Brush marks everywhere!  PAR, bless his heart, hated the stuff.  Please start a new thread, Hirilonde, and tell us how you make this product work for you.

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Back on topic.  I just can’t justify the Torqueedo.  
 

First of all, there’s the cost difference.  The motor is going to cost $2-2.7k, depending on size.  To that, one must add one or two AGM batteries at $270 each.  And these batteries require a fairly intelligent battery charger, so add another $100.  Compare this to $850 for a Suzuki 2.5, and $6 for a gas can.

 

Then, there’s the weight.  Don’t forget to factor in those two batteries in your weight calculations.

 

I just don’t see where the Torqueedo is the best way to go, at least for me.

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Don,

I hope I am understanding your misunderstanding. If you purchase a trolling motor you generally have to piece together a system and add the batteries, cables, charger. But most of the electric outboards like the Epropulsion and the Torqeedo come as a complete kit. The battery is part of the motor and included in the weight of the unit. The kit comes with a charger. There are no cables. Basically there is nothing else you have to buy. Unless you want a spare battery or a solar charger or whatever. They are still very pricey but that price is a complete package, battery, motor unit, and charger.

 

LPUs I love and hate them.

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2 hours ago, Thrillsbe said:

@Joe Anderson I do wish the Suzuki wouldn’t foul my mizzen sheet, though.

That, and that they are ugly and weight in the wrong place are why I must have a removable/installable under way option. Even if the oil/fuel draining issue wasn't, dealing with spilling gas is no fun.

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I was able to pick up the 1103 with a sacrificial zinc (for salt water use) for around $2,200.  Very pricey, and I am of course a little worried about effective range.  But I really like the idea of taking it apart and stowing so I can sail with a free transom with no worry of fuel or oil getting in my boat.  Also, for single handed sailing all I need is a few knots to putter out from ramps that are too far upstream to tack out.  Then I can anchor, stow the motor and detachable SS mount, raise sails and go.  Reverse operation when I get back to the ramp or to an overnight location.  I figure if I get into rough weather when I am out no outboard is really going to bring me home, I'll have to go the old fashioned way and sail the boat.

 

All that said, I am keeping my sweeps onboard.....

 

I'll post some performance data and a couple of videos once I get the kinks worked out this season.

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I am also interested in this.  Please keep the thread going with progress reports.

 

The acid test for power is heading up into a stiff breeze to raise your sails.  Technically, you only need to raise the mizzen, because a raised, close-hauled mizzen will keep you from coming around when you’re trying to raise or reef the main.

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