Aphers Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 About to buy the materials for my 11N project, but I'm finding ash quite tricky to source locally. Douglas Fir and Larch are both more readily available. I've worked with both these timbers before on house builds, and have sailed vessels which incorporated them. I know that they will be durable and strong, but I wonder if they are a bit coarser grained and perhaps more liable to split? Ironically most of the country where I live (Scotland) is covered in Sitka Spruce plantation, but you never see the wood for sale anywhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 Douglass Fir is very good for gunwales, I have used it many times. My current preference for a tender that will be covered with fendering is to use treated pine to prevent rot. I have seen a lot of gunwales rotted out from many wood species because the fender keeps them wet. It is worse if you hold the fender on with fasteners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphers Posted November 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 Thanks for that Graham- I can obtain pressure treated Douglas Fir (I've specified this in the past for a structural job on a house). Would you say that treated DF would be better than pine? I think the DF is stronger but the pine may take up the treatment better. I do indeed plan to have permanently attached fendering so protection from rot is essential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 I have not seen treated fir but I would choose it if given the choice. Fir is stiffer than pine which can be a negative when bending gunwales around the boat. In your cast you are laminating the gunwales in three thin strips, that is not an issue. I have found that treated wood epoxies well as long as it is dry. Around here it is almost dripping wet when it arrives at the lumber yards. I search for older stock, this has the advantage that I can see how it behaves when seasoned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphers Posted November 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 The BoM calls for two 12ft lengths of 2x1 for the gunwales- does this not mean that they are solid timber? EDIT: just re-reading the assembly guide, I think the solid stock has to be ripped into smaller sections and then laminated together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 That BoM is wrong for the S11n. It is correct for the non nesting version. I recall that the actual length is 11' 4" and rounded up to 12'. You need 3 lengths of 1x2. In the US a 1x2 real size is 3/4 thick and 1 1/2 wide. To keep the fair shape of the boat after it is cut in two, we need to laminate the gunwales around the boat in three layers. Allowing for the saw kerf after ripping 3/4" stock you will end up with about 5/16" laminations and will give you close to 1" thick gunwales, this is close to perfect for that boat. We typically use 2 x 4's, real size 1 1/2 x 3 1/2 and rip off 6 - 5/16" slices. You will just have adjust to whatever is available over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphers Posted November 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 OK thanks, I think that makes sense. So essentially I'm looking for a length of 2x4 as clear as I can find? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphers Posted November 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2020 On 11/23/2020 at 3:12 PM, Designer said: My current preference for a tender that will be covered with fendering is to use treated pine to prevent rot. OK shoot this idea down but it occurs to me that I have a readily available source of long thin treated softwood- the fillet strips used in decking projects to fill in the channel in the handrail. Typically sold at a finished size of about 12x45mm and lengths up to 3.6m. e.g. https://www.fourseasonsfencing.co.uk/shop/product/premier-handrail-fillet/ It is NOT a high grade of timber by any means, but it is treated for outdoor use and tends to be pretty clear. Crucially, I can walk in to my local merchant and pick some up tomorrow. My concerns would be that it will not have the strength of a hardwood, or douglas etc, and that it will have a fairly soft surface that will easily be damaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted November 25, 2020 Report Share Posted November 25, 2020 Aphers, since you are covering the entire gunwale with fendering I don't think hardness is an issue. The ad does not identify the wood used, but it is most likely Southern Yellow Pine. SYP, though a softwood, is harder and stronger than most. Find out for sure, but if it is SYP that looks like a nice way to assure you get good stuff. Milled products are usually made with good stuff. edit: I am not sure how many realize this, but the definition of a hardwood is decidious, and evergreen for softwood. It generally speaks to hardness, but not necessarily. Douglas Fir is hard compared to most softwoods, as is SYP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer Posted November 25, 2020 Report Share Posted November 25, 2020 I agree with Dave said. It does look like our typical treated southern yellow pine which I have used many times for gunwales. What I like about it is that it will be better seasoned and is less likely to turn into a snake after it is ripped. After I rip the laminations, I look over every one and select the end with the straightest grain and mark it forward. I will select three for port and the three for starboard so that I know which way to cut the bevel on the bottom edge. The forward end has to take the most bending stress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphers Posted November 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Hirilonde said: I am not sure how many realize this, but the definition of a hardwood is decidious, and evergreen for softwood. It generally speaks to hardness, but not necessarily. Douglas Fir is hard compared to most softwoods, as is SYP. I studied forestry in a limited way at uni, and we used the terms conifer and broadleaf. So there are three different ways of splitting trees in to two groups! Poplar is a deciduous broadleaf, but not exactly a hardwood. Yew is a coniferous evergreen, but can be treated as a hardwood. And holly is a broadleafed evergreen, and again a hardwood. It's all pretty fascinating. Would make a good Venn diagram. Getting back on topic...I'll swing by my local builders' merchant and see if I can find any decent clear timber. I don't think I'll need to be too fussy about species from the sounds of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphers Posted December 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 Well no going back now- just placed my order with Robbins timber for my plywood and hardwood. Eek! I have decided just to go with ash in the end as I couldn't guarantee the quality with other suppliers. Locally available stuff didn't look straight or clear enough. Materials should be here just before Christmas and then I will be getting to work. I'll try to take photos along the way to document the project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadrePoint Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 Aphers, I look forward to following your Spindrift build. I’ve already learned some helpful things from reading this thread. I’ve really enjoyed this forum site since stumbling across it in March of 2020. I’m even beginning a second read-through of various threads on this site from the last six years or so (and continuing to read the older threads as well.) Congratulations on your decision to leap into a Spindrift build by making the wood order. I find that step to be a mixture of excitement and “Aaiee... what have I done!?” (Leaps of any kind can be like that.) An email came this morning from Alan at B&B that I could pick up my recent orders by the end of the week. One is a full Spindrift 10 kit (standard) for a 9th grade girl across the street who loves sailing and whose parents decided to give her the opportunity of building her own boat. I’ll be helping her to make it happen. The second order is for the wood needed for me to build a 15 foot ski boat that I’ve wanted to build since the late 1960’s. We have a couple nice Christmas gifts heading our way. ENJOY! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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