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Core Sound 20 Mk 1


Reacher
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Attached is a photo of CS20 Mk1 #80 taken just after the start of of the Shepro Memorial race in Menominee MI August 10. We were the only centerboarder in the race. We finished about 20 of 34 boats that finished the race. The race is 13.2 mm out around Green Island. The highlight was that a good 10-15 kt wind came up the last 1.5 miles and we made larger boats sweat out the sprint to the finish. The race raised $24,000 for Make a Wish.

 

I am posting this photo because it seems the CS20 Mk3 boats are claiming all the publicity. (Kidding, sort of.) My #80 was started in 2004 in Oklahoma. The original builder went on to other boats. Eventually Jackie Monies, Sail Oklahoma, bought the hull for her husband, Mike to finish. Sadly, he passed away before being able to finish it for the Everglades Challenge. Jackie then donated it to Farley Boat Works in Port Aransas, TX. I acquired it while volunteering at Farley, and finished it in 2016. Thanks to Jackie, Rick Pratt, and the crew at Farley.

 

It is a great boat. I've sailed it on 25 mile legs across Green Bay, an arm of Lake Michigan. It is a capable camping platform. It is fast. And it handles well in wind and waves.

 

The photo shows that there are no seat hatches, just watertight inspection ports. There is a hatch on the back lazarette. The forward compartment has a net below it for convenient  storage of sleeping bags and light gear. There is ample storage for overnight trips. The large cockpit is wonderful.

 

I hope to see more of these boats. 

 

 

Mark 3.jpg

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Thanks, Paul and Nick.

 

I was negligent by forgetting to give credit for the photo. Credit goes to Val Ihde. Val goes out on a boat to take shots of the participants in races out of Menominee, MI. It is good to have a picture of the boat under sail. Thanks, Val!

 

The high roach, full batten sails came with the boat. They came from BandB Yachts and the quality is excellent. I’m glad to have them. The extra power aloft adds so much performance, but means that you have to be prepared to reef, particularly when sailing single handed in gusty winds. Even reefed for heavy conditions they perform well in all points of sail. 

 

After I finished the boat I bought the mizzen staysail. My experience has been that the high roach sails, when sailing on a broad reach, give better performance and fun, than sailing deeper downwind with the staysail. Maybe the staysail is a better match with regular cut sails. I’d like to hear comments on the experiences of others.

 

Although the high roach sails contribute to heeling, the boat responds quickly and positively to releasing the main sheet. I know that some sailors have installed a third mainsheet block on the thwart to give extra purchase when trimming the main. I don’t have that, but I can see that it would be good at times. You need a lot more mainsheet to do that.

 

I have long sail bags bags so that I can leave the battens in the sails. 

 

One speed component that came with with the boat that I didn’t use was a bowsprit. At first I wasn’t sure what the extra lengths of aluminum tubes were for. Then I figured I could add it later. Later hasn’t arrived, yet.

 

For anyone looking at either a CS17 or CS20 I suggest trying to get a side by side comparison. The CS20 is a substantially larger boat, more than I would have guessed. That could affect your choice.

 

Motor is a 2hp two stroke Suzuki 15” shaft. The transom has a cutout, which I deepened a bit, but the motor still cavitates some when going through swells as the transom is lifted.

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3 hours ago, Reacher said:

The high roach, full batten sails came with the boat. They came from BandB Yachts and the quality is excellent. I’m glad to have them. The extra power aloft adds so much performance, but means that you have to be prepared to reef, particularly when sailing single handed in gusty winds. Even reefed for heavy conditions they perform well in all points of sail. 

 

After I finished the boat I bought the mizzen staysail. My experience has been that the high roach sails, when sailing on a broad reach, give better performance and fun, than sailing deeper downwind with the staysail. Maybe the staysail is a better match with regular cut sails. I’d like to hear comments on the experiences of others.

 

Although the high roach sails contribute to heeling, the boat responds quickly and positively to releasing the main sheet. I know that some sailors have installed a third mainsheet block on the thwart to give extra purchase when trimming the main. I don’t have that, but I can see that it would be good at times. You need a lot more mainsheet to do that.

 

I have long sail bags bags so that I can leave the battens in the sails. 

 

I have the full roach with 2 full battens sails from B&B and like them a lot. I have been playing around with tapered wooden battens getting the top one to curve in lighter winds.  I get great shape with them. I have single reefing and put it in at 15 kts. when solo. But without jiffy reefing I have had to sail back in 20 with full sails and simply had to sit out and pay attention.

This is my 5th season and I can see little reason for owning a staysail.  I wouldn't use it.

 

I have a 2:1 ratio on both my sheets.  The main is double ended and the mizzen gets the boost at the traveler/sprit end. But to be honest I see no reason not to have only one end on the main as well and get the ratio with blocks.  Having the swivel block/cleat slightly off center is kind of like the centerboard.  When you realize it doesn't matter in function you stop being bothered by the asymmetry of it.

 

I made such a sail bag. It holds both of my sails flaked with battens in. Definitely a good route to go.

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   On Southbound (CS17 Mk1 #121) I had loads of fun with the mizzen staysail.  Maybe that's because I lived in central NC and went sailing on afternoons that had little to no detectable wind.  Pretty much every time I set the mizzen staysail the boat speed doubled.  I was a bit shy about setting it in higher winds, though, because I usually sailed alone.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Gorgeous photo, Reacher. It's fun to see your beautiful boat. Like Hirilonde, I have a 2:1 ratio on my main. I'd originally rigged it to spec (4:1), but couldn't see the need for it and dropped the extra block and sheet run. I've been out in blows well over 15, and often manage the sheet by clutching the fall (the lines running to the sheet block) - especially if I have to jibe. I prefer the 2:1 because it's less line to have to pull thru the cleat. I also dropped the 2nd cleat for that matter. I didn't like having to manage two sheets and two cleats, so I've just gone to a center mounted cleat, altho, as Hirilonde says, leaving one, offset, cleat would have been fine too. It's a pretty small cockpit on the 17'.

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  • 2 years later...

I’m updating this thread following the 2021 Shepro race, a double handed jib and main race out of Menominee MI around Green Island. About 15 miles. In my case it is a main and mizzen race on my Core Sound 20.1.

 

I will try to attach a picture of the course as sailed in order to show how the boat tacks. I think the angle of tacking is pretty respectable, if not quite 90 degrees. There is one short tack where we were on port and had to give way to a starboard boat. Wind speed outbound was 7mph, increasing to 12-15 on the reach back. We did well on the reach.

 

The picture is from the start, just about to cross the line.

 


 

 

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Hi Reacher,

 

I took the liberty of importing your track along with one of my recent tracks on Carlita. I traced each track (course made good) in blue, the red lines represent the mean wind direction and the black line represents 2 tacks tacking through 90 degrees. 

 

I scaled each red line to represent 1 mile straight to windward. The left track took 1.25 miles to cover one mile to windward and the right track sailed 1.84 miles. You can see that huge gains can be made if you can get it right.

 

To make the point I chose one of my better tracks. The conditions were about as good as it could get with perfect wind strength and flat sea with no discernable current. That very afternoon as I beat out of the eastern channel with more wind and a steep 3' sea, my course sailed was worse than the right track.

 

Looking at your latest picture, with that much wind: I would tighten the luff in both sails, flatten the mizzen with more snotter, sheet the mizzen in tighter, flatten the main a bit more and sheet it in until it starts to luff the mizzen and adjust the centerboard rake until the helm has about 3 degrees of weather helm. Then I would try to sail her full and fairly flat. In light airs I would not sheet so tightly.

 

I find that a lot of skippers tend to set their sails too full and sheeted out too far, only to find that they are not pointing very well and in desperation they start pinching way too much. Remember we are chasing VMG not just speed through the water.788194466_windwardtracks.thumb.png.a74cc377641e316be7f08f20116ae906.png

 

 

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Andy, thanks for thinking that 22/35 is a great job. I wish the results sheet identified the make and length of the boats. The top ten boats are out of reach for me on the open water course of that length. Bennateau 40s, C&C 115, Henderson 30, etc. My boat generally does well against boats less than 30 feet. It’s the 30-34 foot range I try to compete with. It all depends on a good reaching wind vs tacking. All the other boats are keel boats. In the past three years a couple of Core Sounds (that’s Paul356 and me) got exemptions to compete.

 

Designer, thanks for the analysis. I noticed that my sails should have been hoisted a few more inches. My fault that they were not. That accounts for the luff because I need the full hoist to tighten the downhaul sufficiently. I also think that my main sprit needs to be raised at the mast end to provide more vang. Despite measuring and remeasuring it seems the two sprits are not parallel and I think the front one is off.

 

The fact that we did not make 90 degree tacks comes in part from not wanting to pinch, and erring on the side of speed. The island also messes with wind direction and waves bending around the shoal and coming straight at you. But, better sail trim is warranted.
 

As for sail trim and heel at the start, I’ll tell my co-skipper she needs to sharpen her tactics. We’ll see where that gets me.

 

All in all the race felt good. We were passing and catching boats while planing to the finish line. We just ran out of room. And everyone loves “that beautiful boat”. 

 

 

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Yeah, good luck with the co-skipper!

 

I do consider that placing against bigger boats to be a good showing.  This past summer they started a similar race near me, about 15 miles.  Open to all comers--it was small, but they had large keelboats, trailer-sailers, a few kayaks, and it was one by an outrigger canoe setup.  I was too late to enter my Sea Pearl but really want to race it next year (in a Core Sound, possibly, if a suitable one comes up for sale). 

 

It got me thinking--what would be the optimal wind conditions for a Core Sound to win such a race?  My thought would be most of the race on a beam reach so you could plane.  Then for part of the race the wind dies completely so you can row your way past the large keelboats and the multi-hulls?  Or, perhaps, very low wind, just enough to keep the other sailboats slower but enough to let you beat the small craft that rows better?

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Last month, one of the first days I had a tracking program, I played around with a bunch of things on my local lake. I was trying to carry out Graham’s “homework” from a helpful post he gave me on my “CS15 — Sailing the Norma T” thread. 

 

So, I thought I’d post a photo of my effort to point as closely as I could into the wind, the zig-zag track below. The tacks look closer to 90 degrees than I thought they would be. (The wind was mild, sometimes less, about 8 mph.)  I might have been sheeting in too tightly with a result of lower speed. 
 

I’m new to sailing and I just don’t think I point very well upwind and I can tell that the “learning never stops.”  ?

 

The “figure skating” tracks were my learning to steer with a locked tiller, using sails only. I even managed to do a few circles with sails only… I enjoyed my homework. 

 

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2 hours ago, Designer said:

flatten the main a bit more and sheet it in until it starts to luff the mizzen

That is an interesting thought here. I’ve noticed that my mizzen will luff, not flapping, but kind of a gentle “s” shape from luff to leach. Some of that might be an effect of air moving between the two sails, I wonder. 
I’m starting to make a list of questions to bring with me to the Messabout… just around the corner. (I had three full pages of questions with me when I picked up my CS15 kit from B&B in 2020.  Alan and Graham graciously spent a couple hours with me walking through all of them. I tried to remember what I could.  ?)

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Andy, thinking about the optimum wind to win the race around Green Island makes up about 90% of my pre race daydreaming. First of all, there is no rowing, so the extreme light air scenario would only work if everyone else dropped out after sitting still for 10 hours.

 

The course is roughly NW to SE and back. So a SW wind at 8 knots would be great to get to the far end of the Island without reefing. Then immediately upon rounding the far mark the wind would shift S at a steady 18kts to give consistent all out planing all the way back. I think that would be the best chance.

 

There just can’t be any tacking. The handicap is based on the nominal length of the race at so many seconds per mile. If upwind work lengthens the course as sailed by, say, 2 miles, the extra distance doesn’t increase the handicap.

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