toddn.robinson Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 While launching my Vardo this evening I heard a loud "CRACK". I looked down, and saw a crack in the frame that holds the floorboards. The crack is visible on both sides of the sheathing, but is not displaced. Can the boat be salvaged without re-skinning her? I got to paddle her all of twice! I'm heartbroken. I'd take pictures, but the angle is bad, and there is not much to see, as the pieces are still in place. What's the community's opinion? Wrap the frame with heat activated fiberglass tape? Or bite the bullet; cut off the skin and put in a new frame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapecodJohn Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 Wow Todd that sucks, was it baltic birch? Could you sister up a new frame next to the existing one until you decide on a final fix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddn.robinson Posted July 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 It was 1/2 inch Marine Ply. Sistering in new frames is an interesting idea, one I had not thought of. I could even sandwich the existing frame between two sisters, glue them together then drill pilot holes and screw them together in both directions. BTW, I tried to upload pictures, but I keep getting an error message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 14 minutes ago, toddn.robinson said: It was 1/2 inch Marine Ply. Sistering in new frames is an interesting idea, one I had not thought of. I could even sandwich the existing frame between two sisters, glue them together then drill pilot holes and screw them together in both directions. BTW, I tried to upload pictures, but I keep getting an error message. I think this maybe a good idea, if you hadn't oiled the frames. I'm thinking that glue won't stick to an oiled frame. You could sandwich the break with pieces of new ply and mechanically fasten it with screws? I'm making my frames out of real Russian Birch ply. I've seen the quality of marine ply go down over the years, so maybe with care, mine will support my weight until I'm a lean machine. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapecodJohn Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 If you could fit two sisters in the boat that would do it. There may be a joke there some where, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Really would help if we could see a photo but sistering framing might be the simplest. Never had a frame break like that so I am very curious as to why it broke. Where it is determines the repair needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddn.robinson Posted July 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 I will try to post pictures from my computer. When I try from my phone I get an error message. The break is right in the middle of the starboard floor board on both dies of the frame, and clear through the middle. I thought the frame was resting on a launch cradle, supported from underneath. I was leaning on the coaming, but put some weight on it as I tried to get in the boat ( I weigh 275) Apparently the frame was not resting on the cradle. It flexed down and cracked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Best way to get in is sit straddle of the boat, park the butt in the boat and then pull in your legs. If you are not flexible enough to do that, it takes some practice but learn to sit on the back deck. Paddle behind you to one side both hands on the paddle and lean on it like a kickstand. Supporting yourself with your arms while holding on to the paddle shaft. Feet in the boat, then slide into the seat. It's hard at first but it a good trick to learn. The thing most people do wrong is not keep their weight on the paddle, you have to stay leaned to that side. I probably should do a video of this. This is just like learning to get into the boat in deep water. It is skill every paddler should have (most don't have any) and something you should practice regular because you want it to be reflex when you need it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 And I forgot, it is the half frame you can take it out and put in another, but I would probably just cut another and attach it to the old one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddn.robinson Posted July 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Let me try again to post pictures of the cracked frame. Re-read your answer more carefully. As you think I could leave the cracked frame in place, would you be good enough to send me a template for the new frame to sister in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncleralph Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 I am curious as to exactly what kind of plywood that is. Most 1/2 inch marine plywood I have seen is either 7 or 9 even thickness plies. The picture shows 5 plies, with noticeably thinner face sheets. Also,the type of wood seems to be different between the face and inner plies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddn.robinson Posted July 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 I bought the plywood from a boat building specialty supplier in Buffalo. It was sold to me as "Marine Plywood." Was I taken advantage of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 I can't say if it's marine plywood or not, but it looks to be poor quality. Just as a side note, I'm using Russian Baltic Birch plywood and it has 9 equal in thickness plys. You may look into getting a small piece for the repair. Baltic birch link. https://www.amazon.com/Single-Piece-Baltic-Birch-Plywood/dp/B003A0JBC0 You may also score a piece of scrap the right size from a kitchen cabinet maker's shop. I also don't think the frame would have cracked if the kayak were fully supported in the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 Marine Plywood isn't really defined very well. Probably douglas fir and judging by the look it was American made. Sadly America no longer makes good plywood, at least what I have seen. Best plywood comes from overseas now. A was said Baltic Birch is far superior and that is largely why I use it. I used Douglas Fir marine grade but the quality got worse and finally to the point where I refused to sell it to my clients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 On 7/7/2017 at 1:22 PM, toddn.robinson said: Let me try again to post pictures of the cracked frame. Re-read your answer more carefully. As you think I could leave the cracked frame in place, would you be good enough to send me a template for the new frame to sister in? Drop me an email to remind me and Monday I can do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddn.robinson Posted July 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 Sent email to your website store. Thanks Jeff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 That looks to be what they now call AA marine (APA grade) which is American made and exclusively Douglas fir or larch. 1/2" plywood will have 5 veneers and the outer veneer is always going to be a little thinner than the internal veneers after it's sanded . It's not very strong for its weight, but does work in some locations. I'd be inclined to fill the voids with some injected goo (unthickened) and pull the pieces back together. When setup, just trace a sister to fit and glue it on. You don't need two of them sandwiching the broken one. I also wouldn't put any screws into it, even temporary ones. They'll just weaken the assembly, so use only enough clamping pressure, to insure the goo has good contact with the faying surfaces and let it cure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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