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Expedition canoes


Kudzu

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With my kayak stable in good shape I have been really searching trying to decide where I want to go next. Tossed around lots of ideas and finally have realized that I really need to work on my canoes. I have had a couple of inquiries about an Expedition canoe and I think that is going to be the next big project.

 

I am not a 'canoe guy' so I have found a couple of existing canoes and modeled them. I am going to study these and may model a couple more before I done just to get a better understand of expedition canoes.  These two were inspried by the Chestnut Prospector and a Redfish (with hard chines).

 

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These are just study models at this point.  I will make something totally new but first I need something to start with.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Since the forum conversation is a little sparse, I'll chime in...

 

Awesome!  Sounds like fun.  Regarding "Expedition" canoes, if they get too long or bigger than what can fit out of a basement window, it might limit sales for the folks who have/get to build indoors.  That said, I think I've only seen three folks on the forum actually finish a canoe/piroque besides you, of course.  How well do plans sales support this initiative?

 

That said, I'll toss out an idea.  There is a recurring theme of folks (me being one of them) looking for an option to build for river conditions with hazards that could shred a skin boat without having to resort to S&G construction.  I spent my day today drafting up the lofts for Curlew with the idea of building it battan seam style with frames modified for a lightweight plywood skin instead of polyester (and a pointy bow & stern).  I would wager that you might have a better market taking you existing designs and adapting them to a construction method suitable for more hazardous conditions.  From what I've seen in my research, nobody is doing battan seam in production either, so you'd have a bit of market niche to boot.

 

Of course, you could also do book 3 with lofts for Vardo, Ravenswood(s), & the "*Shots"...  ;)

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Batten seam was abandoned pretty quickly, once plywood proved its waterproofness and stability. Some hard chine powerboat hulls can make a good argument for batten seam, but other wise there are lighter ways to get the same stiffness common now. I tried to make a really dainty batten, wide strip hybrid a few years ago, but I just ended up with a smooth seam lapstrake about the same weight, as a glued lap build. Which would you prefer to build, one with more parts (battens) or the same plank count, with just goo in the seams? 

 

For an odd ball, you could put Kevlar on the inside of a 1/8" (3mm) plank, then with taped off laps, skin the outside of the plank with polyester or modacrylic fabric. I'd do this on the broads and garboards, maye the turn of the bilge plank too. I'd bring the fabric ever so slightly under the lap, so it would get covered with goo and fairing compound, before paint, sealing and hiding the fabric seams. Veneers could make this lighter, if more tedious. Maybe some foam, skinned with Kevlar on the inside and some thin veneers or plywood on the outside, also fabric skinned if desired. Tough and fairly light for its durability, etc.

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Best canoe ever. Based on a White guide model. Man, that puppy could carry a load, and paddled as sweet as a dream.

You may be able to discern the heavy skid plates made from polyester ropes. Also a layer of polyester over the glass.

This boat was built as a rock bashing fool, and she was. But, hard stuff in the water is gonna wreck your boat if you hit it, no matter what.

For a heavy expedition canoe, Jeff, I'd beef up the gunwales, add as many stringers as you can stomach, and use a couple thwarts, a yoke, and the seats.

Expedition implies to me a long trip away from civilization. I'll gladly suffer a few pounds for peace of mind...

Peace,

Robert

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Which would you prefer to build, one with more parts (battens) or the same plank count, with just goo in the seams? 

 

Thank you for your reply, PAR.  I learn something every time you chime in.  My observation for the week working on sticking a fork in my first S&G boat, is that this crap (process) is way more like mudding and taping sheetrock than I ever expected.  Truly, I should have known better.  I say it like that because after several rooms worth of mudding and taping, I definitely got better with my technique of sheetrock, mud, and tape; but my first attempt was a dreadful result, and each attempt thereafter was still a little painful to complete.

 

I say all that to reinforce that my pain point is less to do with part count, and more to do with actual time.  I really enjoy shaping wood.  I abhor sanding epoxy. I've got TONS to learn, yet, but my strengths are a good eye/feel for what is straight, square, plumb, and fair, but a far less than stellar execution thereof.  Thus, my satisfaction/hrs invested quotient is far lower when I've already botched up some basics of the construction process.  Totally on me, no doubt, but real nonetheless.

 

My confidence level overall, and in turn my motivation, is altogether higher with the idea of skinning an already square & true frame with plywood vs. polyester vs. S&G construction because I won't be sanding epoxy for days, if not weeks on end trying to sand out the defects.  Far more "complicated" construction, for sure, but for the dollars invested, a far faster and overall more satisfying result than a S&G kit.

 

Now, if I spent my 8-5 shoring up sheet rock to put food on the table...or building real boats as the case may be, I'd probably adapt to whatever was faster and still produced a quality product, but as things stand, I'm just a garage/home builder with minimal experience looking for a quality outcome and minimal frustration.  For me, time has less to do with a myopic process, and more to do with coming home from work and "wanting" to go work on the boat.  Seems to me battan seam can't be all that bad in the big picture, because if I could refund this MFing S&G kit, you can bet I'd have done it years ago.

 

Thanks again for input!

B)

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