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Motor Canoe project


Chick Ludwig

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Looking great!

 

I had an Old Town Discovery Sport 15 years ago that reminds me of your build. I loved that thing once it was in the water. But it weighed about 120 pounds and as such was a bit too heavy to effectively car top for one. If you really succeed keeping this under 70 pounds I may be interested in building one.

 

I currently have a Royalex Old Town Penobscot 17 that I fish out of. My older one obly weighs 62 pounds. They build them heavier now. But when I bought it I asked the older salesperson how much it weighed and he said something to the effect that it was 62 pounds but it got heavier every year with a smile. I didn't know what he meant but I do now!

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Ken, I think it should finish under 70#. You could build it lighter with a simple outwale like B&Bs other canoes and made from a lighter wood. I just like the slotted rubrail made from black walnut, which is a heavy wood. It would also save weight using a couple of stringers either on the inside or outside instead of doubling the bottom.

 

I hope Graham and Alan will make plans and kits available for this little jewel. It may be advantageous to reduce the side height a little, too. we wanted to keep plenty of freeboard for my purposes of using the boat to motor up open water lakes to my favorite turtlin' creeks powered with an electric trolling motor with two batteries in place of the zuki gas motor. Those batteries are heavy. That and the fact that I, along with a favorite turtlin' buddy, are pretty heavy for a low sided boat. We'll see. 

 

We'll get pictures and reports on how we use Mr. Motor Canoe this Summer.

 

Steve, I totally agree with that salesman, that our boats get heavier each year. a couple of friends have suggested that maybe it has more to do with the fact that I'm getting older. That's ridiculous! What could age possibly have to do with anything?

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Some judicious use of a Forstner bit and a depth stop, can lighten the crap out of those rails and other parts, without being visible. I cut lightening holes in everything, almost getting anal about it. It's a bit like discovering what you can do with a dimple die, when you're welding up a race car. It turns into Swiss cheese, but it's lighter without losing much strength or stiffness. Well placed lightening holes do the same thing a few ounces at a time.

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Good idea, Paul. Now I'll just go chisel the dang things off so I can lighten them. I wonder how I can drill 'em into the backside of the bottom doubler, too? Maybe I can train some termites to eat out the inner ply of the 4mm plywood in some kind of a pattern that will leave ridges tying the two outer plys together. Boy, the more I think about it, the more ways I can see to cut some weight out! I can see how one does become anal about it...

:blink:

 

 

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I can mail you a set of male/female termites, well trained to eat only "inside the lines" just like you were told, with your first coloring book, Chick. Admittedly the male is much better than the female, who proved to be more of a dominatrix and drama queen, though still trainable. This picture was taken before I'd finished with my termite team, but as you can see they're efficient.

 


72.jpg

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Wow, Paul. I gotta have some of those 'mites! Is poxy poisonous to theme? I'd hate to take the trouble to breed a colony, but lose them all in their first job.

 

Ken, I've tried helium. The volume required need ballast (anti ballast) tanks WAY to big. I have had some luck with sky hooks, but there is not always a cloud in the right place to hook them to. The new, cloudless variety would work better, but with today's state-of-the-art technology, they are way out of my price range.

 

All kidding aside, I'll have no trouble lifting my end, but Miss Debbie is gonna have to go to the gym and lift weights to build herself up. I haven't told her that yet, though.

 

Now that that's outa the way, it's time to go out to the garage and finish making and installing the keel, a bit if fairing the outside seams, and cogitating on what we're gonna do about paint. I'd ask the canoe, but until it's "born" and named, it won't be able to talk. No point in asking Turtler; he say's ''If red is good enough for me, it's good enough for a dumb canoe." Summer Breeze says, "There are only two colors for a boat, green or black, and only an idiot would paint a boat black."

 

 

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A friend of mine says this, "For the life of me, I don't know why people will put all that time, effort, and money i to the building of a boat, and scrimp on the paint. One-part polyurethane only costs $30 more than Rustoleum. It's gotta be twice as tough. Toughness is what you need for a car topper-- it's gonna get banged up a lot, loading and unloading. But I've seen it over and over again, people spending hundreds or thousands on the boat, and saving $30 on a can of soft paint. Don't do it!"

 

What do y'all think? Is one part poly twice as tough as an enamel paint? If using two part poly, how about ease of touch-up? What is the price difference between locally bought Rustoleum or floor and deck paint compared to the one part poly marine paint when you include hasmat and shipping charges? Is there a one part poly non marine paint that can be bought locally? What other considerations are there? For a small boat, it needs to be available in a quart size. Let's hear all sides on this. Should be a good discussion.

 

I just found this from Sherwin Williams. http://protective.sherwin-williams.com/detail.jsp?A=sku-26098%3aproduct-6810

The data sheet says it's as hard and u/v resistant as two part polys. It can be ordered through the local S.W. store, but only comes in gallon size @ $130/gal. That is for clear base. We can by tints from them to tint ourselves if we needed different colors. It is also available in white base, yellow, and safety red.

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Jay, that's what is on the deck of Summer Breeze. Wait, mine is water based epoxy. Is that it? Two gallons is WAAAY to much for a canoe. Let's here from the rest of you professional, newbie, and wanna be boat painters. Don't be shy. All opinions matter.

 

Update, keel finished, Seams filled and sanded. Ready to poxy coat. Gotta go work with kid-os at church tonight, then we'll get that poxy coat done.

 

Then flip, poxy, varnish the brightwork. Last, re-flip, sand, and....prime and/or paint with.....

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I took PAR's advice and used (single-part) Interlux Brightsides after prepping with their primer for single-part paints.  I have only painted the wet locker beneath the aft seats.  I am very happy with its appearance, hardness, leveling, and filling properties.  The finish made it look like I had done more sanding and fairing than I had done. 

 

There is a new book on rolling Interlux (2-part) Perfection.  I don't know if the same advice applies to Brightsides, but will try it out. 

 

Paint seems to be one of the darkest arts in boatbuilding, which is why PAR gets paid the bigbux. 

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I've been researching one part polyurethane that I can buy locally.

 

I'm getting info. from the factory rep on this. I talked on the phone with him. So far, it's highly recommended--- AND, it's available by special order in the Glidden store in Asheville.
https://docs.td.ppgpmc.com//download/945/2466/psx-one

As soon as I get the "skinny", I'll pass it on to you guys. The rep told me that he has several industrial customers using it on tanks and things. He'll look more into marine use and price. The data sheet says it can be used over epoxy coatings as long as the amine blush is removed!

 

Alan (from B&B) says they've used DeVoe 379 two part poly and it's very similar to Awlgrip, but MUCH cheaper. I've used it on a couple of boats and liked it. That's what I called the Glidden store about (they sell DeVoe) and they told me that it's no longer available and referred me to the rep for an equivalent product. One problem with it is that it's extremely dangerous to breathe the fumes. For spraying, a supplied air respirator is needed, along with full body coverage. With my chemical caused neuropathy, I don't really want to us it. The psx-one doesn't have isocyanate so it's much safer.

 

Steve, my garage has open eves on front and back, so I've got good ventilation. I usually have the doors open anyway. My biggest problem is dust in the air from the open ceiling and all the stuff stored up there. I'll carry this boat out to the carport for painting the outside and varnishing the inside.

 

I just finished poxy coating the exterior, and will flip it tomorrow to coat the inside. It needs to set for a couple of days to harden enough to sand without clogging the sand paper.

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I've never used anything but porch and floor on my boats. Well, for the painted bits. :)

 

I've never had one problem. When there has been damage, it has been easy as pie to repair.

 

Porch and floor is formulated to walk on. It ain't interior wall paint. Would I use it on a moored boat? No.

A drysailed camp cruiser? Yes. In a very obnoxious orange, too.

A little pirogue or canoe? Sure. Yellow, with green trim...

 

Peace,

Robert

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Hi Chick,

 

I used Interlux perfection, a 2-party polyurethane over most of my boat.   It has a lot of solvent fumes, so I used a gas-mask style 3M respirator with organic fume filters.  I could sure smell the fumes when I took the mask off.  I'm happy with the results, but it's not perfect.

 

I also used some Rustoleum for some detail and also on my previous build, a puddle duck.  The Rustoleum enamel is an alkyd, even their marine enamel, so it's a step below single-part polyurethane.  There's a paint-thinner smell, but not bad. 

 

What about repairs?  The Interlux perfection has a shelf life of about 2 years.  There's no way I'm going to buy a whole pint of that expensive stuff to make a repair 2 years from now.  The rustoleum shelf life is 5 years and it's cheap.  I'd have no problem buying a can to fix up a beach-scraped bottom.

 

Bob

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Chick,

Several manufacturers now make water clean up polyurethane fortified porch and floor enamels, whatever that means.

 

It means the gloss is really hard, for one thing, and I kind of suspect the snazzy polyurethane technology is spreading into other places.

 

I hope. The stuff I have is more than a year old, and seems to be wearing better than the old fashioned porch and floor. 

I've been water clean up for more than a dozen years on everything I use.

 

Your canoe looks awesome. Don't forget to build to plan and fill her on the inside to the waterline! :)

 

Peace,

Robert

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