G Man

Well, its been nearly one year to the date of the first cut, and Belhaven #40 is finally finished! (Except for rigging) What a great project this was and being my first build, I was pleased at how well it came together, a credit to Graham's design. Thanks to everyone on the forum who helped me out along the way. Sorry for the lack of updates, but every free moment I had went to tinkering on the boat! I have some better pictures I'll post later and of course, when I get the sails and rig her up, the launch. I also built a motor well under a 10.5" deck plate in the cockpit with a removeable motor mount so that the outboard can be stowed in a locker when under sail. As you can see, I changed the cabin design around for a more traditional look as well. I have some hemp rope on the way for running rigging, and lacing the sails on the masts. I made some ash blocks for the main and mizzen sheets to add to the traditional looks. Once I get these bits installed I'll post pics.

Just to support your decision, I am in the process of building Belhaven #40. It is my first build and it's going great! I am very glad I decided to just go with the Belhaven instead of practicing on a smaller build first. As others have said, it really is just a matter of more time and money and the use of the same techniques, but on a larger scale. I have just installed the keel and finished the paint. After the hull dries, I'll flip it over and finsih off the interior structure and cabin and decking. I have been working on mine since the end of October last year and the time has flown by! Best of luck on the project!

I have been beating my head against the wall for 6 months on the topic of ply. I live in the UAE and am building a Belhaven, but sourcing marine ply is impossible. I found some nice BS1088 marine for the hull, but this particular yacht builder is now bankrupt and was the only importer of good ply. I am currently using a 3 ply film faced "marine" ply, but it only comes in 12 or 18mm. When it comes to the cabin and decking, I'll be forced to use a WBP "commercial" grade in order to get 6mm. It's not ideal, but the best I have available to me since ordering ply is insanley expensive. My point is that I had a choice, build a boat and make the most of what's available or keep dreaming. If it is the difference between the project becoming a reality or a fantasy, then I would say go with the 6566. As for me, I used to refurbish sailboats before I decided to scratch build so I am quite good at repairing rot and damage! I might end up doing that a bit earlier than I would like to with my boat, but with proper maintenance and a little "tlc" the boat will last many years. It's just my 2 cents, but I must agree with everyone else that it's best to use the best ply you can.

Well, here is the progress I've made from mid October to end of Novemeber. The work pace in December has been slow due to the holidays approaching. I hope to resume pace in January; at least until the new baby is born at the end of the month! The hull is built of Austin Powerply and taped with 600 gsm woven roving making her quite strong. Should serve me well in a seaway in the Persian Gulf! Due to the fact there is not a lot of small boat building here, I am forced to use more robust material designed for larger boats.

Just got the plywood for Belhaven #40! Finally found a great material supplier here in Dubai at a boat yard not too far from my house. Should be a good contact for everything required for this project. Very excited as this is my first build. Thanks to everyone who has helped me throughout the process of choosing the right design. I feel very confident in my choice of the Belhaven and B&B. Was going to build the P22, but with the unknown variables of sourcing material combined with this being my first build, I thought the Belhaven matched my criteria a bit better. Will keep you posted with progress and questions I'm sure! Thanks to Scott for the great pics included on the CD for the plans. I will document my build as well and hopefully contribute some good info to future builders. Well, time to organize the tools and dig in!

Thanks for that Graham. It seems that stability performance would suit the conditions I would be sailing in.

Since I have found a shipyard that has some stock in the size I am looking for it sounds promising. They have been quite helpful and am confident they have the resources to obtain extra stock without gouging me on the price. Can anyone comment on the "seaworthiness" of the P22? I am getting close to the point of committing to a design and just wanted to be sure that the P22 will satisfy my sailing needs. What is the righting arm? Could this be used for offshore work or are there some mods to be done. I would like to sail in the Dubai to Muscat race at some point (360nm offshore race) or simply not have to worry about picking the perfect weather to go sail. Keeping in mind the conditions here are not that extreme and most people sail production coastal cruisers just fine here. Thanks again for all the input. I suppose I am changing the topic a bit, should I start a new thread?

It looks like a bridge deck mod would be pretty straight forward and if I'm not wrong, it also looks like from the drawings on their study plan, the VG23 is already drawn up for full masthead rigging. Intreguing!

Thanks for that Scott! The VG23 looks interesting. Unfortunatley it does not have a very traditional look that attracts me, but they seem to really pack a lot into a 23' boat. I have not seen any boats of that size with so much interior space and a large cockpit. Do you know if this is a blue water boat? They mention that the previous design, serpentine 22, has crossed the Atlantic. The website makes it seem pretty easy to build as well. Only 500hrs. Can't find much info on any VG23's currently sailing.

Thanks for the link Greg, very interesting. Considering my previous woodworking experience, I feel more comfortable with a ply construction, but if push came to shove finding the material, I would definatley look into it. They make it seem easy to build in ferro.

Thanks for the ideas. The special order thing is tough here. In the US and Europe, things are just easier to accomplish. Unfortunatley the suppliers are really only interested if special orders are under commercial contracts and are placed in massive bulk. If it's a small order, it is not worth their time and will charge $$$. Fortunatley though, I have had a break through! A ship yard has just got back to me about some stock of 9mm and 5mm marine ply. They are looking into the exact quantity as it is not a stocked item, but potential for good news! Interesting idea on the ferro-cement Greg. I have not seen any plans or even have a clue as to the process for a homebuild. Do you have any links or other info on the topic? As far as anything that comes from Israel, not going to happen here unfortunatley. I ordered a large wall map of the world from the US. When it went through customs, they opened it to see what it was and discovered that, of course, Israel was listed on the map and they wanted it either cutout from the map or blacked out with a Sharpie! In the end, nothing happened, but it is a different mentality out here.

I have contacted some of the local ship yards and they confirmed what the suppliers said in that they really only build in those two sizes. There really isn't a demand for other sizes according to the suppliers and builders. The wood boats here seem to utilize strip plank construction. Plenty of options in solid lumber. Thought about special order, but the costs of shipment from asia of a stack of ply would put the cost of the boat way outside my budget limits. Sort of the rock and a hard place issue.

Sorry for the late reply, been doing quite a bit of research on designs. Thanks for all the great input on the vacationer! Yeah, I have definatley moved on. Looking at more seaworthy designs as I know I have really pushed the envelope of the Helson and would like to sail in similar conditions. My biggest problem now has come from sourcing marine ply! They only sell 18mm and 12mm here in the UAE. No other options other than dodgey "commercial" grade plywood. It's already getting sticky and I haven't even made the first cut!!! Thanks again everyone!

After mulling over design after design, I must say I am thoroughly impressed with the B&B designs. Problem is which one?! Emailed Graham several times and have the material lists for several. Fantastic! Well... Since I live in the UAE, I began sourcing suppliers for wood. Considering there is a lot of boat building here I figured this would be easy. Problem is that they ONLY supply marine ply in 18mm and 12mm thickness. period. When asking about non marine ply and what grades are available, the options are Chinese or Indonesion. They (the suppliers) don't even know what grade or quality it is. It's mostly used for construction fencing and billboards as most building work is done in concrete and steel. Not a good feeling as to the quality of the stuff. So, for the experts out there, what would you do? Read all the articles about using non marine ply and the argument is the same. I have my eys on the p22, but could I really invest all that time and $$$ into a boat using less than ideal material? I hate to abondon the dream of boat building over lack of marine ply. Seems a compromise of using thicker than required ply vs using the correct size non marine version. Any info that could inspire some ideas would be terrific!! Thanks!

Blunt is good! Beleive me, the last thing I want to do is go into a project with a shadow of doubt and then as others have said end up with something I regret doing. I have layed to rest my plans to build a Stevenson boat. I do realize that the design will not suit my needs. I just want to make sure I don't leave any stone unturned on any plan that I look at in order to know exactly what the possibilities and limitations are to a particular design even considering modifications. Thanks guys for all of your input on the subject and it has really helped in my understanding of choosing the right design. With both a big time and money comittment, I want to make sure I go in fully aware and confident of my project. Thanks again!

Well, even with the ballast/keel it seems the overall consensus is that this is not a good design for my needs. I would hate to finish the project and wish I had built a design that may have cost a bit extra and/or taken a bit more time to build, but would sail better in coastal conditions.

Wow! A guy that supports his design/product like that is something you just don't see today. I have magicjack out here so the calls back home are free! Again, the following these boats have and the support other owners/builders have for each other is very appealing to a first time builder. Thanks! With regards to the vacay design, it seems that most people's biggest argument on the vacay is that it is unballasted. I tend to agree. That is why I wanted to change the design by adding ballast (plenty of room in that full keel) and a swing keel-centerboard. (again, loads of room in that keel) Aside from the flatbottom dorry hull, which is not as good as the Belhaven, it seems with the mods you essential have the right numbers for a boat of the vacay's size to operate safely and sail modestly well.

It seems that ballast would perhaps not neccesarily improve sailing qualities, but maybe improve stability when manevering about and while at anchor as some have suggested on this site. As far as the keel, some have said that the original plans have called for a centerboard, but found it didn't work as well. It seems that the biggest drawback to the Stevenson designs is the sailing qualties are not quite up to par as others in a similar class. But the other designs that those mention would sail better for a similar cost/build incorporate ballast and centerboards. Granted they also don't have flatbottom hulls which would be less desirable in choppy water, but is something I think I could live with as this would be a bit more of challenge to sail in which is something that appeals to me. See the Stevenson designs appeal to me in terms of cost/time to build, size and looks, but I am concerned that I might be dissapointed in the handling qualities and coastal cruising ability, keeping in mind I'm not out to set any speed records or race it, but rather just enjoy making way. I would like to here the argument for the Stevenson's handling qualities.

Thanks Greg! Yeah, it should be interesting. Fortunatley there are several proffesional builders in the area that build mostly wooden dhows, but utilize a lot of the same material required in the projects I'm looking at, so there is a supply that exists, but the costs are a bit higher. I also get back to the states a few times per year, so I'll be able to pack a few extra suit cases full of fasteners, marine goods, etc to bring back. I thought about shipping one in like you suggested, which I think would be a lot of fun seeing as there are some interesting and old boats scattered around these areas, but I feel like finding the right one would be like a needle in a hay stack. It could also chew up a lot more money (travel expenses, airfare, etc) and time than just building one of my own. I can see that there are some very unique and interesting sailing to be had around here as you pointed out and can't wait to get out on the water again!

That's true Ray, I didn't do a good job specifying the hours per year. I estimated 400-500hrs a year, so the belhaven, vacay, or similar style designs should accomplish my goal of under 2 years. I would really like to build something like the Glen-L Amigo, Paul Fisher's Black Swann, or John Welsford's Sundowner as those would certainly satisfy all categories except cost and build time. Not only would the material cost way more, the time spent building, plus educating myself on more advanced techniques would be a very daunting comitment and far exceed 2 years. The more time I spend researching, and this website has helped a lot, the closer I get seperating dream from reality. Sorry to diverage a bit from the topic of the original posting, but does anyone know anything about the Glen-L Fancy Free? Build time/costs, and sailing performance? It seems like a boat that could be compared with some of the designs that have been discussed here. I will say, the B&B designs seem to have been well tested and many built, sailed in various conditions all around the world with a strong following. More so than most boats I've researched and that speaks volumes. It's not a design that jumps out and grabs my attention (just personal preference) but it is growing on me. Greg, doing another restoration project was what I wanted to do for the reason of satisfying the salt life itch while I build, but unfortunatley here in Dubai, there is little to no used boat market and anything that is remotley in disrepair is scrapped. I've scowered the place, but no luck. It's either brand spanking new production boat or build your own.

Well I must say the info and responses I have recieved in the short time I have been on this forum has been astounding! Thanks to everyone for taking the time to give me such great input and "food for thought". I found everyone very welcoming and I feel even more encouraged to take on my first build knowing that there is such a great group of people on this forum to help me out. This is really the only forum that I have been on where guys don't slam each other (especially novices) for posting questions that may seem trivial for those with more experience. I have been researching designs and boat building basics for about 5 months now and my goal is to decide on plans by November and start the build. The problem I have had is that there are so many designs that I find myself really liking one, but another similar design has something that the other doesn't and vise versa. I'm not sure I will find what that is perfect on every aspect since it seems every boat (even production designs) has their compromises. If I had to say, my criteria is: 1. Sailing characteristics (fun to sail, not neccesarily easy to sail, I like a challenge) 2. Seaworthy (enough for coastal sailing in the Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea) 3. Size (big enough for my wife and 2 small kids) 4. Ease and Cost to Build 5. A boat that won't take 2+ years to build 6. Looks (I really like the looks of the vacay, but it won't meet the majority of my other criteria that ranks higher) Anyway, thanks again for all the wonderful support and great insight! You guys have a great forum here.

Hey Greg, thanks for the link to the Belhaven. Very interesting design. This seems to incorporate the centerboard and ballast that is missing in the vacationer. Do you know the costs and building time between this and the vacationer? The B&B guys seem pretty set on the cat ketch rig, are there any options for a sloop rig or would that not work as well? What about gaff rigged ketch?

Thanks for all the great info! Will respost on the main forum. Sorry about that! I will have a look around at some of the B&B designs. The only problem with looking around is that inevitably I end up liking designs that are way too complex, time consuming, and expensive to build. I guess that is the major appeal to me for the Stevenson boats. While I enjoy woodworking and fabrication projects, I am definatley more of sailor than a builder; at least for now... Thanks again for the input!

Hi, new to the forum and boatbuilding. Been sailing for years and after moving to Dubai in the UAE, I was forced to sell my Helsen 22' sloop. I am looking at building a vacationer as it seems similar enough to my Helsen in terms of size for the family and trailerability, plus I love the look! Have done several sailboat restorations and have played around with tweaking designs in attempts to improve boat handling characteristics, so I can't resist with this project either. One aspect of the Helsen that really worked well was a retractable centerboard-keel. Has anyone considered this for the Vacay? The one on the Helsen was merely a 3 1/2 foot piece of 3/8" steel. Not shaped or foiled at all. But it provided a ballasting effect which seems to be a benefit for the Stevenson boats, plus when lowered acted as a keel. It's a very simple and low maintenance design. With the keel up, the Helsen seemed to handle much like what I've read about the vacay/weekenders. Overall it sailed well, but lower the keel and the performance effect was huge. She tracked, tacked and pointed like a dream. Similar hull design in that the Helsen was shallow and relatively flat on the bottom and quite beemey. To add this feature would not intrude on the design since I would install it in the middle of the keel and would not required mods to the cabin (except a small tube for the retracting cable to reach a hand winch in the cabin). It would also solve the ballast issue and doesn't add much time or money to the build. The only thing that I don't know is if these designs really benefit from a keel or simply ballast is enough. Any info, ideas, or thoughts on this topic would be apprectiated as this would be a consideration early in the project since the keel is the first part built.

Hi, new to the forum and boatbuilding. Been sailing for years and after moving to Dubai in the UAE, I was forced to sell my Helsen 22' sloop. I am looking at building a vacationer as it seems similar enough to my Helsen in terms of size for the family and trailerability, plus I love the look! Have done several sailboat restorations and have played around with tweaking designs in attempts to improve boat handling characteristics, so I can't resist with this project either. One aspect of the Helsen that really worked well was a retractable centerboard-keel. Has anyone considered this for the Vacay? The one on the Helsen was merely a 3 1/2 foot piece of 3/8" steel. Not shaped or foiled at all. But it provided a ballasting effect which seems to be a benefit for the Stevenson boats, plus when lowered acted as a keel. It's a very simple and low maintenance design. With the keel up, the Helsen seemed to handle much like what I've read about the vacay/weekenders. Overall it sailed well, but lower the keel and the performance effect was huge. She tracked, tacked and pointed like a dream. Similar hull design in that the Helsen was shallow and relatively flat on the bottom and quite beemey. To add this feature would not intrude on the design since I would install it in the middle of the keel and would not required mods to the cabin (except a small tube for the retracting cable to reach a hand winch in the cabin). It would also solve the ballast issue and doesn't add much time or money to the build. The only thing that I don't know is if these designs really benefit from a keel or simply ballast is enough. Any info, ideas, or thoughts on this topic would be apprectiated as this would be a consideration early in the project since the keel is the first part built.