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Everything posted by PadrePoint

  1. Chick, that was a laugh-out-loud story for me. ? (Even the second read-through ?.) (OK, even the third read through made me laugh… even as I TYPE this I’m laughing. Sorry, Chick.) First vote from family is to go with the yellow ‘cause it would be cute and fun. Hard to argue (being that the opinion is my wife’s. ?) Besides, I like the blue/yellow IKEA-like color combination and the stainless hollowback covers a lot of the yellow of the gunwale. And, to explain the origins of IKEA, a recent video by a couple local Wisconsin comedians… check them out: Dude Dad and Manitowoc Minute. Always worth a good laugh.
  2. Uh Oh… no blue paint… ?Am I Blue ? After making the previous post, I thought I should check on the paint that came with Avocet, the CS17mk3 that I bought last month. I thought the blue was there, but nope. ? However, the YELLOW color paint of the gunwale IS in the box. So, the float might have to be that color instead. ? Other options: should I get a quart of the blue for future touch up, find similar blue Rustoleum locally, OR, maybe the boat needs a “classier all white mast float… or white with the matching yellow fish-face and highlights? Hmmm… I will need to consult with family on this. ?
  3. Pink Salmon Floats?? ? I let the epoxy of my little patches cure a few days before adding another coat of primer. (I didn’t take a photo of the final primer coat… and I didn’t epoxy coat the tail fin, just primer.) Then, for a first coat of paint, I used some dregs of white and red that I had mixed together a couple months ago to show The Weezer (her build blog) how we could easily make safe-to-use one-part marine paint in her desired shades of pink. She’s been in a holding pattern for months on finishing her Spindrift 10 trying to find an auto body shop that would paint it. I encouraged her to give it a try herself with the paint I’ve used: Interlux Brightsides (which doesn’t offer pink… but I remember my childhood Golden Book which was read to me in pre-reader days, and then many times to my kids: The Color Kittens ?.) Remember it? “We can MAKE pink from white and red!” ? So, using the leftover dregs and the brush I used for the red on my two boat builds, the floats now look like pink salmon. ?. (Red and blue coats are next.) By the way, I made this color by adding white to red. I believe we will have a better pink result by adding red to white instead.
  4. A last word… ENJOY your build!
  5. I sanded the primer, epoxy-glued in the tail fins, and touched up some of the rough spots with thickened epoxy. Tomorrow, I’ll put on a second coat of primer. Why not? (The different lighting makes for the differing colors.)
  6. VERY fun. Glad you could meet the B&B guys. And, this will be a great learning and growth experience for everyone… on this, your first B&B boat build. ?
  7. Moving Along — A Little Rough I did an initial sanding of the glue-up outside my garage (I found rubbing a bunch of snow ? on my jacket removed the foam dust that absolutely defied coming off my jacket with hand brushing.) Then, I needed to get some “walls” up around my basement shop area to contain dust and fumes. I hope it is sufficiently effective. I sanded the hardened caulk to some kind of smoothness. I’ve already decided that my painting/finishing goal will be more toward “functional” than what I went for with my boats. How to apply 2 dimensional glass cloth to 3 dimensional surfaces??? I’m amazed how much wetted cloth can adapt to curve shapes. I underestimated that capacity when I glassed my CS15 hull… I really didn’t need to make the cuts/overlaps I did on the sides… oh well… Cloth can adjust, but this is a substantial set of curves, especially as it moves to the blunt nose and thin tail. I guess, just jump into it and see how it goes. I cut some darts, made some overlaps, and did the best I could do. The second one went better than the first. A little experience helps, I guess. After a couple days, I got the sander out to see how things have come out. A few 1/2 inch bubbles had formed, but by and large… not bad. The side of the top float (below) looks like it has a lamprey bite ?. After I glassed the second float, because my basement is rather cool, I thought I’d blow the glass with my heat gun a little, just to warm the epoxy a bit. I was distracted for juuuust a short moment once and held the gun kinda still. Whoa… immediate kick-off. (Quick, blow in it.) The foam indented a bit with the epoxy’s heat. I added a few layers of glass cloth patches to build it up. Mostly, it’s fixed. I’ll take it and make up a good story for the “oops”… I kinda like the lamprey approach. ? I added a thin coat of primer to each. When dry, I’ll try enhancing a few surface irregularities that formed with glassing over the curvy foam, but I’m going to be happy with functional.
  8. Beautiful. And, I like your colors.
  9. A Bit of Whoops… (time for some caulk) I put some sticky back sandpaper onto a sponge block to smooth things out. The construction glue certainly holds stuff together fine but I should not have allowed any “squeeze out.” The rubbery glue doesn’t want to sand out. Oops. I kinda got careless on the nose at one point and didn’t notice I was removing too much of the foam as I was scrubbing the glue a bit. So… maybe a little repair and fill in before fiberglassing is in order. I have a tube of good outdoor caulk that I got for a six foot bead line, so I might as well use it. It’s brown and likely has no more purpose for my house. The joints on top and bottom have a few gaps, so I might as well fill that too. Will that make much of a difference in the end? Likely not. A bit messy (hey, it’s the way of boat-building) but the caulk will sand smooth more effectively than the glue. Now I need to let things sit. I asked Facebook friends whether I should go with the straightforward approach, or add the fish-face and tail fin. It’s unanimous… FISH!! ? ? Some significant snow is finally hitting us. We get to start playing, “AM I STILL ON THE ROAD?” ? When we do the “drive and feel” method in blizzards, it’s always nice to have the snowplow piles on the sides of the road to be like “bumper bowling.” ? (My wife used to work for the Girl Scouts in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan; she would sometimes be driving alone at night while cutting tracks in 12+ inches of snow on VERY remote roads. Whew! Girl Scouting can be adventurous.)
  10. Glued Up For this, I decided to use basic construction glue. The floats will both be fiberglassed, so the glue is only minimally important. For the bottom section I chiseled out a little wedge and cut a groove into the pvc. The cured glue might act like a spline being pushed into the spaces. Perhaps this will more effectively hold pvc and foam together. Did I NEED to do this? Likely not, but it didn’t take much, so why not? Ready to add the second layer. Then, I figured I should spread the glue for the next layers. Better, I think. Done. I’ll let them sit until tomorrow. The fish tail that I made is on the float with a face… the kit’s tail is on the other… just to compare. The kit tail has a nice and more finished aeronautic look to it. I think I’ll make a second fish tail… just ‘cuz I think it looks kinda comical. ? Finally, an important news bulletin just came in:
  11. When I read the “1/2” bit I wasn’t paying enough attention to the post. I thought Kennneee wrote it and it didn’t really look half scale. Plus, I thought he was building it 16 feet. Thanks, Graham, for clarifying that YOU are doing the 1/2 scale. THAT sounds like a fun project. I’m very glad the Lapwing kit seems to be coming out well. I’ve pondered trying my hand at making a small model of my CS15 l, just for fun, if I run out of projects to keep me busy. We’ll see if I ever give that a shot. Now that I realize yours is half sized I’m more able to recognize its scale in the photos. Yes, how “cute” this is going to be. ? Are you maintaining the two mast setup??? (Or is this just for the kit development?)
  12. One of my four adult kids just told me in our group message thread that the float looks… FINtastic. That’s gonna start a whole bunch of corny puns in our message board… usually does. I’ve taught them well. Hey, grandkids, be inspired. ?
  13. I just realized… ? I’m thinking the float might serve as a wind indicator… to some degree. I notice the tail is just a bit heavier than completely balanced, which I think makes sense. With the mast raked back 6 degrees the tail might naturally swing aft… again, desired, I guess… after all, fish don’t swim well backward. ? This, along with my plan to mount them on the mizzen masts, thus the mainsail will have an impact… well, we shall see. Wind indicator correctness of the float might about as accurate as wind in my face… and, I guess, it won’t matter so much to me. I don’t like craning my neck up anyway. ?
  14. And What To Paint Them? Two floats for two boats… red boat, blue boat… Inspiration from the grandkids’ books… Huh? Huh? More fun that just white? ?
  15. Something like….?? ? I did a dry assembly on one of the two mast floats and decided to try making it into a fish. I asked my grandkids to give names to the two floats. My wife thought “fishy” or “floaty” would be what they’d come up with. Sure ‘nuff, the 1st grade boy came up with Fishy. My reply? “No, no…. It’s GOTTA be something more interesting and funny than that, and Floaty was just the first thing that came to your mind. Give this some actual thought and time. DELICATE MATTERS LIKE THIS TAKE GREAT CONSIDERATION. ? In fact, we’ll wait until AFTER I make and paint them before they get a name… so keep thinking, kiddo.” They’re gonna need some “dad-joke” coaching for this. So, wondering how to draw fish-face parts… I just jumped into a first attempt. It’s a start. Now to make another tail fin to look “fishy”… I thought the mouth could be a little more smiley… so, how’s this? I think it could turn out kinda cute in spite of my low and rudimentary level of artistic skills. ? In the spirit of Christmas Carols… I needed this when I was asked as a 3rd grade kid to sing unaccompanied to my family gathering. (Like many, I ran out of air just before … ria… preparation is everything.) ?
  16. I’m still wondering what you meant by half scale… an 8 foot lapwing? ?
  17. A photo of Paul’s… one of the early forms.
  18. Yeah, Don… well, a few times I broke my own rule (1a, 1b, etc.) for whatever reason… usually thinking about a big step I’m about to do with my epoxy mix. I’d make the bigger batch by squirting out consecutive pumpfuls ? of resin and… suddenly think, “darn, did I do three… four… so far?” I think I always managed to figure it out correctly and resolved again TO ALWAYS ALTERNATE!! I do try to learn. ? Oh, and pumpfuls makes me think with a chuckle a discussion in my Greek 101 class… should the translation be 12 “baskets” of leftover bread, as though 12 baskets were around and were filled up with bread… or 12 “basketfuls”, as in a large amount … like 12 times what might fit in a basket. It was all Greek to me at first… but learning occurs. ?
  19. Yep… I’m good at losing count. So, I always do a pumpful of resin and, while the pump goes back up, I add a pumpful of hardener (actually a HALF pumpful of hardener… I’m not sure if you realize that the pumps will come with a little sleeve for the hardener pump that stops it half way down.) Also, except for glassing large areas (the hull) I rarely mixed more than two to four “pumpfuls” at a time. I lucked out in my big glassing-the-hull project on Norma T by mostly only mixing up batches of epoxy to support my son’s applying it to the glass. It was pumpful after pumpful. (There’s another one of those fancy technical boatbuilding terms — pumpfuls. ?)
  20. I put “half squirt” marks on the pump plungers when I’ve wanted small amounts of epoxy or thickened epoxy and it has always come out fine. In fact, I’ve even split the “halfway” point of each pump to make a quarter amount for, say, gluing a small piece into place or fixing something minor. Just an idea. The ratio of resin to hardener remains the same with the “half squirt” marks. (Just wanted to say “half squirt” again… I think it’s a funny technical term. ?)
  21. I plan to put the floats on my mizzen masts. If I need a light on Avocet, I’d place it on the taller main mast.
  22. Reposting a Reply From Alan Stewart The information below is from Todd Stein’s build thread… a Core Sound 20 Mark 3. Here is a video of his boat shortly after his initial launch: (By the way, Todd did beautiful work in building his boat. I enjoyed his company at the 2021 Mess-About and even had a chance to sail his boat for a while. That opportunity helped me decide to buy a CS17mk3 that came up for sale on the forum the next month — Avocet… the boat used in the first video below. I had started to become interested in B&B’s new developing model described below — CS17/20sr — when Avocet popped up. I look forward to installing one of the mast float kits on Avocet for next summer’s sailing adventures.) A while back I looked at many cases for the 20mk3. You can see some of the results in the form of stability curves here. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rqaVj7Ncj45HQtIq8PMWILgZhQCXYuGpHj3qkUgu6DU/edit?usp=sharing Sealing the cockpit comings entirely would certainly add some positive buoyancy to the boat in a capsize. The stability curves we calculated assumed the coamings were flooded. Basically you would be increasing the angle of vanishing stability. The water ballast however is by far the largest determinant factor. We think the boat should always be sailed with the water ballast filled unless you are motoring in a dead calm or sailing in drifting conditions. The numbers don't lie and I am confident that the 20-mark 3 WOULD turn turtle without the water ballast in even if the cockpit comings were completely sealed. A small mast had float on the 17 mark 3 and 20 mark 3 can be added to prevent the boat going turtle in all scenarios which would be a good idea if you like to sail the boat without the ballast of if you plan to participate in say the Everglades Challenge for example. I plan to have a mast head float on my CS-20 Mark 3 because I like to sail without the ballast because it's faster! and I don't want to worry about turning turtle when I don't have the ballast in. If you always have the ballast in then no need. With the water ballast filled the boat should not be able to turtle even if the centerboard is up on the 20 mark 3. (maybe not true for the 17 mk3...see below) This is I think attributed to the taller masts which (once partially underwater) provide the missing righting moment lost from the CB which is good because it remains to be seen if the centerboard could be reached from the water if the boat capsizes to starboard (putting the offset board higher up in the air). I intend to test this extensively with my boat. We have only been able so far to test capsizing a CS-17 Mk3. Based on these few tests, the 17mk3 was easily righted by one person with the tank full and the board down and even while at the same time scooping the crew into the cockpit. The one test we did with the board UP it looked like she wanted to turtle even with the ballast tank filled. The boat tested did not have sealed cockpit coamings. There were a few extra variables in this test though such as the mizzen being flipped over and could have been scooping water as they tried to right the boat with no CB. Also this test pointed out the possible usefulness of a line tied to the trailing edge of the CB that could be pulled on from the water to re-lower the centerboard. (Note: the blue boat, Avocet, in this video is the CS17 Mark 3 that I purchased late in 2021 from the builder, who lives near B&B Yachts. The yellow float will be mounted atop the mizzen mast.) The 17mk3 is still quite stable without the ballast with an angle of vanishing stability of around 70-80 deg or so. We tested the angle of vanishing stabilty of Grahams 17mk3 here but with no sails at the time and got 85 deg w/o ballast. And we did a similar test of the first CS-20 Mark 3 with the ballast in only here. Only because it is pertinent to the above we are also working on a new design...(spilling the beans here) we are currently calling the Core Sound 17/20 SR. (SR stands for self righting). We're pushing the limits of the water ballast in a remake of the original CS-17 and 20. The boat below has almost the same hull shape as the CS-20 mk3 but with added sheer height to gain the maximum righting moment from the cockpit coamings which are now completely sealed. The water ballast tank is a full 550lbs in the CS-20 SR and there is 4 inches of blue closed cell foam blocking between the underside of the cockpit sole and the top of the water in the ballast tank. The purpose of this is to push the center of volume of the water ballast lower in the boat thus reducing the vertical center of gravity. It has the added benefit of being able to fill the tank without topping off with buckets or pumps since the entire tank is below the waterline. It is very hard to get a shallow draft boat to self right and it's impossible to do it without sealing the cockpit coamings. That also makes the boat very stable in the inverted position. To solve that problem. One of the coamings is flooded automatically if the boat turns turtle allowing the boat to be rotated back on her side and then righted. If I had this boat, I would also have a mast head float on it for the same reasons as above. I like to sail w/o the ballast (because it's fast) and don't want to worry about turtling. The 17 and 20 SR will also have an integral outboard well in the stern of the cockpit, a longer forward cockpit seating area for camping under a dodger and we're shrinking the weighted CB down so just the top of the trunk sticks up above the sole.
  23. First Photos The two kits came in this box (plans are included.) When I bought Avocet last month (CS17mk3) the builder was willing to stop at B&B to pick up this order and bring it with his boat to Indiana, where we met to exchange boat and check. I finally took things out of the box and put them on my workbench, since I’m planning to make the mast floats soon. (I’m in the process of sharpening my skis for this weekend.). The kit even came with fiberglass cloth, a much lighter weight than what I’ve used in my boat building. I might play around with the rear fin, maybe using some 4mm okume scrap from my son’s canoe build to make more of a fish tail-fin shape. I think, the mast floats have a cute fish-shape to them. I’ve asked my grandkids to name the floats when I get them built. Who know what the colors might be at this point… white or matching the hull colors? And, maybe we should think about adding cute eyes, mouth, and gills. ?
  24. I Built Two for my Two Core Sounds Final result: The process: I know I saw the info below somewhere but it took me a while to find it again. Now that I have two Mast Float Kits, recently purchased from B&B Yachts, I thought I’d make a short thread specifically about this product. This recent information from Alan is near the end of a 2018 thread called: B&B's first annual "Capsize Camp" located at: Alan wrote on Oct. 4 of 2021: We've improved the float considerably since our first version. Currently we have a 20lb float and a 30lb float. Here are some pictures of one of the first 20lb floats. https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZTwr4HrRCWPGKpVj9 The 20lb would be suitable for the CS-17. The 30lb would be suitable for the 20 Mark 3. Both are assembled from 4 layers of CNC cut blue foam and "speared" with a piece of pvc pipe which makes for a quick and easy assembly that is perfectly aligned. Glass with 4oz cloth. They rotate very nicely on an aluminum "mast" which sticks up from the actual mast. Could also be side mounted on a mast that is not a B&B kit mast. Removes quickly with a cotter pin. I hope to have a few cut out at the mess about. A few have asked for these and it's just another thing on our list of things waiting to be added to the website.
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