Reacher

They wish. You also have to figure in cost of the kit, epoxy, etc., shop expenses, sails, trailer, rigging. Maybe $1/hr net for labor?

A husband/wife team I know built a CS 17 from a kit in 3-4 months working at it full time. Maybe 1200 hrs between them.

Thanks, Paul and Nick. I was negligent by forgetting to give credit for the photo. Credit goes to Val Ihde. Val goes out on a boat to take shots of the participants in races out of Menominee, MI. It is good to have a picture of the boat under sail. Thanks, Val! The high roach, full batten sails came with the boat. They came from BandB Yachts and the quality is excellent. I’m glad to have them. The extra power aloft adds so much performance, but means that you have to be prepared to reef, particularly when sailing single handed in gusty winds. Even reefed for heavy conditions they perform well in all points of sail. After I finished the boat I bought the mizzen staysail. My experience has been that the high roach sails, when sailing on a broad reach, give better performance and fun, than sailing deeper downwind with the staysail. Maybe the staysail is a better match with regular cut sails. I’d like to hear comments on the experiences of others. Although the high roach sails contribute to heeling, the boat responds quickly and positively to releasing the main sheet. I know that some sailors have installed a third mainsheet block on the thwart to give extra purchase when trimming the main. I don’t have that, but I can see that it would be good at times. You need a lot more mainsheet to do that. I have long sail bags bags so that I can leave the battens in the sails. One speed component that came with with the boat that I didn’t use was a bowsprit. At first I wasn’t sure what the extra lengths of aluminum tubes were for. Then I figured I could add it later. Later hasn’t arrived, yet. For anyone looking at either a CS17 or CS20 I suggest trying to get a side by side comparison. The CS20 is a substantially larger boat, more than I would have guessed. That could affect your choice. Motor is a 2hp two stroke Suzuki 15” shaft. The transom has a cutout, which I deepened a bit, but the motor still cavitates some when going through swells as the transom is lifted.

Attached is a photo of CS20 Mk1 #80 taken just after the start of of the Shepro Memorial race in Menominee MI August 10. We were the only centerboarder in the race. We finished about 20 of 34 boats that finished the race. The race is 13.2 mm out around Green Island. The highlight was that a good 10-15 kt wind came up the last 1.5 miles and we made larger boats sweat out the sprint to the finish. The race raised $24,000 for Make a Wish. I am posting this photo because it seems the CS20 Mk3 boats are claiming all the publicity. (Kidding, sort of.) My #80 was started in 2004 in Oklahoma. The original builder went on to other boats. Eventually Jackie Monies, Sail Oklahoma, bought the hull for her husband, Mike to finish. Sadly, he passed away before being able to finish it for the Everglades Challenge. Jackie then donated it to Farley Boat Works in Port Aransas, TX. I acquired it while volunteering at Farley, and finished it in 2016. Thanks to Jackie, Rick Pratt, and the crew at Farley. It is a great boat. I've sailed it on 25 mile legs across Green Bay, an arm of Lake Michigan. It is a capable camping platform. It is fast. And it handles well in wind and waves. The photo shows that there are no seat hatches, just watertight inspection ports. There is a hatch on the back lazarette. The forward compartment has a net below it for convenient storage of sleeping bags and light gear. There is ample storage for overnight trips. The large cockpit is wonderful. I hope to see more of these boats.

Thanks for the video. In addition to the action footage it is good to see the rigging methods you used. It looks like you are having a great trip with opportunities to sail.

Thanks for posting Wes. I followed your build log extensively while completing #80, which I acquired partially done. Thanks so much for documenting the work you did. I love the boat, am so happy to have the 20MkI. Good luck with the sale. Someone will be happy to get the boat.

Mark, I got my boat partially completed. The centerboard was finished bright so I didn’t change it. It’s true that it doesn’t make much difference since it is inside the centerboard trunk anyway. But I do like the looks of the varnished lever sticking out of the trunk. Don’t know if the MkIII eve has that end visible.

It sounds and looks like a nice little cruise. I haven’t done an overnighter yet this summer so this gives me some incentive. Thanks.

Steve, I use the halyards to support the aft ends of the sprits. If you are only concerned about the mainsail/sprit you can use the mizzen halyard to support the main sprit. But, a pendant that you can easily detach and store is a good idea for the main. Good looking boat! Congratulations on the project and the launch.

Thanks for documenting the design and the test. The angle away from the transom adds so much to the ease of use.

Nick, thanks for documenting the build. And for choosing the CS 20 mk1. I obtained the partially completed hull of #80 three years ago and finished it. It was the boat I wanted since seeing a CS 17 the year before and has proven to be a great choice for daysailing and short cruises. And it is fun to run past much larger keelboats when the wind is up. I like your modification of the forward area. I added cargo netting under the foredeck hatch so I can toss in light gear without having it fall to the bottom out of reach. I attached a ladder similar to yours. It has worked well enough. If you can devise a way to have the bottom angle out from the boat it would be easier to use. Please keep posting pictures.

That’s a great association with the boats we love. Thanks. I would like to see the hulls.

Pete, Thanks for the write up on a challenging situation. Glad you made it home safely. In hindsight, what could you have done differently aside from watching the forecast more closely? Could you have remained at anchor? Run the boat ashore?

Paul, Thanks for the excellent write-up of your experience. I really appreciate the “lessons learned “ account. I think the best lesson from your capsize is to know how valuable a competent crew member can be. Your analysis leaves me with the realization that I may not be able to recover my CS-20 in the event of a capsize. I guess it is time to make a practice capsize and see what happens. My best option may be to use a mast float. Other measures I will prepare are attaching lines amidship to help with righting leverage, sealing the deck hatch so it is water tight, adding hold down points to lash equipment aboard. My boat doesn’t have seat hatches, just watertight inspection covers, so I’m happy with that. Another avenue of preparation is to think about what to do if you can’t recover the boat. How to contact help, how to avoid hypothermia and so forth. What I hate to think about is changing one’s sailing style. Do you become more conservative, not hike out, stay in on windy days, hug the shoreline, go with maximum reefing? Buy a keelboat? Not attractive options. I hope to see you back on Lake Michigan this summer. It’s been a long winter, but sailing season starts tonight with Wednesday night races.

I might think about lifting the dinghy (half) over the lowest point of the coaming then bringing it forward on its side along the seat to get it in position. Maybe even over the transom. I’m suggesting this without knowing the layout of any obstacles such as trailer fenders, etc. It’s usually easier to move something when you get it at your own level.

Charlie, thanks for the clear pictures and the write up. Good to see you posting again. I camped for a couple of nights at Magnolia Beach in March on my way from Farley Boat Works. Great spot.

When I was doing the calculations in the first post I was thinking that the destination was directly downwind. But I realized that it is more likely that a downwind mark might be 20 or 30 degrees off of dead downwind. In those situations the temptation might be to sail directly to the mark. But, if a 10-20 degree course deviation (sailing 40 degrees off of dead downwind rather than 10-20 degrees) adds only 2-6% to the length of the leg, it might be well worth it to sail the higher course if boat speed rises accordingly. So important to find the sweet spot for boat speed. Pete, my favorite ice boat is the Class A stern streerer aptly named The Menace.

Pete, Alex, Brad, thanks for the polar plots. When a sailing friend saw my page of calculations he said, "there's charts for that." I'm thinking that the CS-20 polar plot is like the J-105, especially when the wind is up. The best downwind tactic is to sail 135 to 140 degrees off the wind in lighter air and then sail deeper off the wind as wind speed picks up to 20 kts. Or, on a typical day, sail 40 degrees off of dead downwind, then head more downwind in the puffs. Pete, my experience in ice boating is that you can't really go downwind, and you think you can't pull the sheet in hard enough going upwind. Alex, that is a very interesting link. Good find. Brad, good choice to show the difference between the Hunter (beam reach is fastest) and the broad reaching J-105.

This thread is an offshoot of the Velocity Made Good (VMG) discussion in the Everglades Challenge 2019 thread. I always want to reach downwind rather than running wing and wing. But, I never really know how much faster I have to reach to have a better vmg. I thought the vmg function on a GPS would give the answer but it doesn't. Feel free to correct my trig calculations, it's been awhile. Course deviation of 10 degrees gives a 2% longer course. 20 degrees gives a 6% longer course. 30 degrees gives a 15% longer course. 40 degrees gives a 31% longer course. 45 degrees gives a 41% longer course. If you can do 5 kts straight down wind, then: 10 degrees off is 5.1 knots to stay even 20 degrees off is 5.3 30 degrees off is 5.8 40 degrees off is 6.6 45 degrees off is 7.1 kts. Once the ice melts I will check this out.

I've always been disappointed in vmg readings on instruments I've used. Maybe I need better equipment. For instance, when tacking to a mark, on the second last leg (tacking to the lay line), vmg gradually diminishes until it reaches 0 at the lay line. Then you tack to sail directly to the mark and the vmg jumps to boat speed and stays there until you reach the mark. In reality your progress to the mark was constant over both legs. Does anyone have a GPS that will give the constant reading? When gibing downwind compared to running wing-and-wing, the instrument will usually say that vmg drops with gibing. But, as in the example of tacking above, the vmg bonus reading comes on the last leg. On legs prior to the last one the vmg will diminish as you go along.

Southern Skimmer, how do you rate the wishbone sprits?

Scott, I'd say try the plastic wood filler if it gives the color you want. Just let it fully dry before coating it with epoxy. I don't like using a filler with cabosil for spots like screw heads because it is harder than the surrounding surface and therefore doesn't sand the same. Some epoxies mixed with wood flour shrink as they cure and the next season you will see dimples on the surface. And, as you noted, epoxy will darken the wood flour.

Dawn and Paul, hope you can repost the build pictures that were deleted!

Acreew, You probably saw this post re lead tip for the centerboard: http://sailnaway.blogspot.com/2014/04/a-little-side-project.html. Thanks to Alan for doing it. The weight is about 18 lbs. I can see that it's not enough for ballast. Like you, I would like to know how much lead would be required. I have used a centerboard with 15 lbs of lead to keep the board down. Raising it is not an issue because the flotation of the centerboard makes the lead surprisingly light when it's in the water. The ballasted centerboard still needs a hold down to keep it from slamming back into the trunk in case of capsize. If you need to shape the lead casting so it's fair with the centerboard, I found a router with a carbide bit was effective.

Nicely done! Please tell more about the foam. Can’t tell how you laid it over the frames. It appears you used some relief cuts to bend it. How did you fair it to get the smooth contours? Thanks.