Alan Stewart

There are a few pictures of Graham doing this part in the Core Sound 17 Album. He used one piece of cloth with the corners cut and brought it up the sides about an inch and a half. It could also be done in pieces but the corners are tricky no matter what. If you get a stubborn air bubble, try coming back in a few hours when the epoxy is starting to get really sticky and you can usually mash a stubborn spot down for good.

More pictures here: https://goo.gl/photos/aFhBD3RfSJ8vSU5K9

BoatBumm, Sorry for the confusion. The temporary frame typically used in the non nesting version to set the beam of the hull is replaced in your case with the two separating bulkheads as you correctly thought. The part of the instructions you quoted about the cockpit sides and the tenons is not applicable to the nesting version because of the lack of cockpit sides in the nesting hull. Michael Niemi did a great video of the butterfly step no the S10N and also lots of great older pictures on his blog. Video: Blog: http://svbreakaway.info/dinghy-project2.php#butterfly Hope that clears it up -Alan

Amos, You can definitely make a hole that size without compromising the structure. The beckson screw type ports are another option and a bit cheaper than armstrong for an area that not be splashed with water often. -Alan

Join the facebook group for recent pictures and upload your own too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/288804334653596/

Randy and Bobby reported that they spent a half hour in stop and go traffic getting through Kinston on highway 70 as it's down to 1 lane. We have some roads closed here in NC so make sure you check your route on your way here. Seems like there are ways around everywhere but may be some delays. http://tims.ncdot.gov/tims/default.aspx -Alan

That's weird. Looks clear here. https://www.wunderground.com/us/nc/bayboro

The recent hurricane Matthew spared the shop at B&B. We are all fine and there was no damage to report. We saw approximately 3-4 feet of water rise which was not enough to adversely affect the shop. We spent last week preparing for the **worst. Fortunately this resulted is some great fall cleaning in preparation for this years Messabout. (**we had 4 feet of water in the lower shop and 1.5 feet in the upper shop during hurricane Irene). This week the shop is without power so far and the internet is down at Carla and Grahams place (but they do have power at least) Please send any communications to us via cellphone or business email bandbkitboats@gmail.com until further notice. Thank you for your patience. -B&B

OOps. Thanks. Friday October 21st through 23rd.

We finally have some details for the 2016 Messabout and we've got a shiny new sign up system in place. We are having everyone pre-pay for the grand buffet dinner on Friday so head over to the website for details. Just go to the 2016 Messabout webpage and all will be explained. Email any issues to Alan at bandbkitboats @ gmail.com See you there!!!

Walt, Starting to look like a nice boat! Gunwales go the other way (bevel side down). The bevel keeps the gunwale from catching on things it might rub up against like a dock. Also make takes some of the stiffness out to make bending easier. Also nicer to grip when carrying. Not sure why the transom height doesn't match the side panel, maybe another picture showing the bottom and top together. I assume the tabs in your chine are tightly meshed and wired and the transom is sitting on top of the bottom panel right at the aft edge. Also make sure he longitudinal bulkheads are pushed into the transom dados. The partial bulkheads that go in the side tanks to flat up against the back side of the temporary frame. You can tack weld them into the hull when it's time for that on the backside before you remove the temp frame. The forward bulkhead has lines drawn on the hull for it's position. The aft bulkhead fits into dados so that is fixed. Just let the longitudinal bulkheads bend naturally across the transom, temp frame and fwd bulkhead like you have them. -Alan

Amos, Yes indeed. Working on it now. We decided to roll the 17 and 20 mk3 manuals into one document since almost all of the information is technique oriented and not really dimension-ally specific. -Alan

The Longitudinal bulkheads are joined together with a butt joint and a butt block on the outboard side. Part numbers 8, 9 and 10. Make sure the dado in the stern end that will receive the aft bulkhead is opposite the butt block. Dado inboard, butt block outboard. Also, leave 3/4" clear at the top of the longitudinals above the butt block for the 3/4" square stiffener that glues to the top outboard edge.

Looking good, You can just clamp a piece of scrap 1x2 to the front side of the fwd bulkhead to take the bow out. You shouldn't need to plane anything off it. A small gap is normal. Anything less than 1/8" is perfectly acceptable. Every boat bends a tiny fraction differently. Resist the temptation to "pull" the hull into the bulkhead especially the bottom. Any small gaps in the fwd bulkhead will be totally covered over by filleting and glass tape. It's not important that the longitudinal bulkheads go in before the gunwales are glued on but it's fun to throw them in because they are there and why not and it makes the boat look more like a boat. Just the fwd bulkhead, temp center frame and transom are enough to do the gunwales. All of the internal structure parts (longitudinal bulkheads, fwd blkhd, partial bulkheads, aft bulkhead, transom) should be put in before you would think about tack welding and glassing the chines and keel. You want to make sure all the parts FIT before you go setting the hull in it's final shape. Your doing fine.

Taylor says, "We need all of the B&B boats!" I explain that that is how we all feel but you have to pick ONE to build next. "Okay, let's build a CS20 Mark 3." A couple weeks ago we started cutting module pieces. After we finish the module I'll cut the rest of the kit and we will unfold the hull. See all photos click here : https://photos.app.goo.gl/22Tfg2WR5pTSBHyw1

Walt, yes definitely. Lots you can do. A quick overview.... -Assemble and glue cleats to top outboard side of longitudinal bulkheads. -Install longitudinal bulkheads, fwd bulkheads, aft bulkheads and partial bulkheads. These can all be dropped right in to your unfolded hull. The longitudinal bulkheads dado into the fwd bulkhead and the transom for alignment. -install the breasthook -Glue the gunwales on -Glue the transom in -install the quarter knees -Tack weld the hull, longitudinal bulkheads, partial bulkhead, fwd bulkhead, aft bulkhead. -Install trunk beams (can be dryfit fut to keep longitudinal bulkhead spacing correct) Remove the temp center frame, no longer needed. -Check for twist. -Fillet and tape everything inside. Even up to that point, the hull will have A LOT of ability to twist. It's really only after the seat tops and fore-deck are glued down that the hull will be "Locked in" and you want to check for twist before doing that. I wouldn't even worry about leveling the boat fore and aft at all right now. You don't need to know until you're installing the foredeck to make sure it has some aft slope for draining. Then you won't need to really worry about it until you paint the boat and then only if you plan to paint a waterline which is not required and many small boats don't even have. For a quick level check however...the tip of the bow should be about 5 1/2" higher than the highest point on the transom. -Alan

Looking good Walt. The fwd bulkhead along with thw breasthook will also help to get the bow pushed apart to its final shape. I would have it wired in there while the gunwales are glued on.

Walt, The horizontal stiffener beam looks correct since the sides widen as the move forward away from the transom. On the vertical 3/4" solid stiffener it's hard to tell from your picture but it should also widen slightly as it moves forward away from the transom since the transom has some aft rake and the keel has upward sloping rocker. These angles are really not that critical because thickened epoxy is very good at gap filling. In fact you could have no bevels at all and all would be well. What can go wrong however (for example) is you put a temporary screw through the hull side panel and into the end of the transom stiffener beam and snug it up tight and then glue the transom in assuming that is the correct angle. Then when you put the gunwales on find out the sides actually take on a slightly different angle. I recommend, after you assemble the transom parts, you temporarily install the transom (dry no epoxy) with drywall screws and or wire ties and leave it that way until after the gunwales are glued on. Then you can remove the transom and reinstall it with thickened epoxy and all angles will be set. I typically don't screw drywall screws in all the way if I don't have to which is the case with holding the transom in place. As long as the screw threads are threaded in both pieces (the side/bottom panel and the transom stiffeners in this case) then the screw is doing it's job and clamping the pieces in place. It's looking really really good. -Alan

It's for sheeting purchase. We went for 4:1 on the CS20 Mark 3 due to the larger main. I have had no problem with 2:1 on the CS-20 but a 4:1 would be nice for heavy wind work. -Alan

Walt, I honestly don't think that amount of error is enough to worry about and I think once the boat is folded no one would ever be able to measure any significant difference between the two halves of the hull. There are many other opportunities for mistakes and so I would count this one as a non-event. Making sure the boat is free of twist for example is one that can really leave the boat awkward looking. I say carry on, not worth cutting in half for a tenth. Also, from the picture it looks like a fine job on gluing the finger joints. -Alan

My dad and I flipped the CS20 in about 20 knots. (sorry no video) during the BBC I think 2 years ago. We had 1/2 centerboard down gong through some shallows and did a tack too fast and overshot a bit and boom over it went. My Dad went swimming but I managed to swing over the top right on to the side of the hull that was now up in the air thanks to dinghy racing reflexes (not sure how I did it really). To my HORROR I watched the centerboard swing back into the boat as she settled on the bouancy of the cabin and masts. Fortunately we have a keel strip but the dang thing is only 7/8" wide with the hollow back on. My toes have never clung so hard to a piece of wood and I tried to channel my inner rock climber skills. I figured I had one shot with my leatherman pliers to grab the CB and get it out. Of course I had forgot to tie off the leatherman when I packed it in my lifejacket so as punishment, i had to use it over water with one chance if it went flying out of my hand. Anyway, I clung to the keel hand on the chine and started to reach down for the board when the boat started to right itself. She flipped back up right with full sail in 20 knots and the CB completely up and just me standing on the keel strip. I was amazed and relieved. My dad was floating at the stern the whole time. I almost lost my leatherman from being startled that the boat was righting as I was hunched on the keel. Show me someone doing that on any other boat and I'll be impressed. I guess I'll have to do a video and prove it. -Alan

Walt, I dont think it would be possible to undo the glue joint with a heat gun but ive never tried. If it was real bad like 1" bad, another way is to just saw through the finger joint from chine to keel with a hand saw. the. plane a bit down on the edge that will tilt the panel back into alignment. After that, a butt joint with a piece of glass tape on both sides will make it good as new and just a different but very acceptable ply joint. If the misalignment is within about 1/4 or even 3/8 at the very end I think you will be hard pressed to ever notice and I would just proceed. laying them on each other in an "average" position so as to half the error would let you take a little off of each and get them to half as bad. It's more important that the bottom and side panels when joined together with the dovetail joint are a matched pair.

Amos, Any sharp corner is more prone to "damage" because whatever touches it exerts a much larger force per area on contact. In this case, it's not worth the extra effort to do something crazy like put in a metal edge because it's easy to replace any chips after a few years if you even get any. I always feel better knowing i've reduced that drag at the transom as much as I could. I also think it makes for a quieter boat through the water assuming your already in good trim. -Alan

Yup, you have to re run the sheet (around the mizzen mast) and the tack line (around the mainsheet) when tacking or gybing. For that reason, it's not a great sail for short gybing, better to set it up on a long run. One way to ease the pain is to use a caribener on the sheet and a rope loop on the clew of the staysail. When I gybe.... -let go the halyard and let it slip through my hand as I pull down the staysail into the cockpit just forward of the mizzen mast. Easier to have a crew do this while you steer. -As soon as it's down you can gybe. -Now you have to switch the tack line to the other side of the bow and onto the other side of the mainsheet. You can do that by unclipping the halyard and reclipping it on the other side of the mainsheet or by doing the same with the tack line. On my 17 there are blocks up forward on either side for the staysail tack with a line running between them and a loop in the middle. The ends lead aft to a cleat on either side of the boat. So I can uncleat the "tack line" and pull the sail back to me, switch the tack to the other side of the mainsheet, then pull in the tack line again to pull the tack of the staysail back out to the bow. I can use the cleats on either side to move the staysail tack from port to starboard without gonig forward. -Then I re-clip the sheet on to the clew on the correct side of the mizzen mast (leeward) and the sail is ready to re-hoist. Make sure the sheet is slack while you hoist to avoid the sail being able to fill.

Fishman, Thanks for the great pictures, would you mind if I used them (with credit of course) on the B&B website? Thanks also for posting speed/prop/motor data and for having the boat weighed, we love to see calculations on paper come to fruition as intended and with Graham behind the pen (or computer) it's what we've come to expect! Fantastic, -Alan